Growthtrac Community

[Wynne]

Perhaps the old illustration about the gloves and the mud-pies would work here.

If you were to don a lovely pair of soft white cotton gloves, then make mud-pies with your child, would the mud get glovey or the gloves get muddy?

This is really a visualization for a Christian and a non-Christian, I know. But even a Christian, if he is carnal, brings the stain of the world into the relationship, dear.

[Beloved]

Danielle, To Answer your question- You can lead a carnal christian into the believing end but only if you are not in a relationship with them. For example if you know a person you would like to lead to Christ than you would have a different approach towards the person, there is no personal interest there. Now in a relationship it is Very different, the carnal personal won't always listen to what the spritual person in the relationship has to say only because they are seeking "carnal" interests, and this could be a dangerous place to be. Carnal is self-seeking sometimes, it will seek things that will satisfy its flesh and we know where that can lead. I'm not speaking for the heck of it, sadly I've been on both sides of the spectrum...

[danielle]

Not sure what you mean by leading a carnal Christian into believing. They are already believers; just don't have Christ at the throne of their life and they try to live the Christian life through their own efforts vs. relying on the Holy Spirit.

What I'm talking about is a carnal Christian witnessing a spiritual Christian's walk, and being influenced by that (i.e. becoming more active in their walk where they are heading towards having Christ at the head). Winning them over so to say, but our works as stated in 1 Peter.

[Wynne]

Perhaps we need a different term, friends.

"Carnal", of the flesh, makes the man sound to me as if he had once known the joy and power and cleansing of Our Blessed Lord, but later decided to return to the world. Spending all his free time in strip clubs, or something like that.

I do not believe that is what you meant, Dani. Thank you for further explanation.

[danielle]

This is the full definition of the carnal Christian according to the well-known brochure, how to live the spirit-filled life:

Carnal Man (One who has received Christ, but who lives in defeat because is trying to live the Christian life in his own strength)

-self is on the throne
-Christ dethroned and not allowed to direct life
-interests are directed by self, often resulting in discord and frustration.

"And I brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to carnal men, as to babes in Christ. I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able, for you are still carnal. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshy, and are you not walking like mere men?" (1 Corinthians 3:1-3).

[jadalina]

Danielle,

I am pleased that you are experiencing a personal relationship with God.

Who initiated your relationship, and what plans are there for the future - (as you hereby refer to him as a boyfriend).

Thanks.

Jadalina

[danielle]

We both initiated the relationship--long story, but the short version is we met in college about 10 years ago, always had an attraction but were only friends. Then we finally decided to give dating a try about 5 years ago. Don't exactly know what the future holds at this point--what God's will entails is what I want.

[Wynne]

That reaching out together for God is the main point, isn't it, dear?

[danielle]

Yes it is if we BOTH are aiming to do that. Together is the operative word here, since there hasn't been that feeling of true togetherness here in this area. Its been more on-sided....

[Andrea]

I am going through a similar experience, and it came to a point in which I had to decide to finally let go and let God do the work. I love this man with all of my heart, but both him and I know that the only way that we can be good for each other is if we both have God first in our lives. It's been a year already, but God has worked in me so much since then, and I know that He is doing the same in him. All I can do is pray for him, and I know that if its God will, He will put him back in my life. The basis to a great relationship is God, and I know that I wouldn't be comfortable sharing my life with a man that had God as a social event or as something other than number one on his list. A great illustration is one that I read of in a Kay Arthur book: Think of a triangle, with God at the top point, and you and your partner at the other two bottom points. The closer that each of you walks to God, the closer that the two of you are getting. You need a man that is willing to make that walk.

[Wynne]

So right, Andrea dear!

Welcome!

[danielle]

Andrea:
Thanks so much for sharing your story, and I agree 100%. In fact, my & my bf have taken a step back in the relationship lately. I cannot date seriously without having a Christ-centered relationship present. It's imperative for me and in order for that to happen I believe that Christ must be at the throne at both of our lives.

How do you address if someone tells you he's on the throne sometimes? (granted I'm sure we all don't have him at the throne 24/7).

[Janine]

Any sensible Christian woman wants a Christian man, I'm sure.

But now you've crossed into specialized territory -

How "Christian" is "Christian" enough?!?

[SusieQ]

Davep,

I like your definition of spiritual and carnal Christians. I'm in a situation similar to Danielle's. My bf and I go to church regularly. I was brought up in church, saved as a young child but a real transformation came about when I was 23, 2 years after I was married. I was involved in some really in depth Bible studies and began to really grow. My growth continued, but sometimes like Chuck Swindoll says, taking 3 steps forward, 2 steps back. I divorced after 21 years of marriage (11 years ago) and I had my share of difficult times and spiritual dryness. About 5 years after the divorce I got back into church regularly, and began growing again. I wasn't totally out of church that 5 years and I still tried to maintain a relationship with God but it was more difficult, I was dating a non Christian which I knew was wrong, but I was married to a Christian who was not faithful to me and I for a time, just didn't want any part of it, I thought, who can I trust? Not right I know. Anyway, I'm rambling. I broke off the relationship with my non Christian bf. I didn't date for about 9 months and just concentrated on my relationship with the Lord, and then I met someone at my church, and after deciding that we wanted more than just friendship, we started dating. I really thought God had brought him into my life. I know it's not for me to judge, but the Word does say that we will know them by their fruits, not that I'm perfect, and I know that this could be maybe that he's a carnal Christian (I know he is a much younger Christian than me). Anyway, my QUESTION is.... he plays these war * games, quite a lot sometimes, and he get's so angry while playing these games that he curses the game, beats the computer table with his hands, and just acts like a little kid, plus the language is just awful. I've talked with him about this and his answer is "sorry I hurt your tender ears". It's not about my ears being "tender" but about what is pleasing to God. Now, I'm not perfect, I say things I shouldn't sometime, but it's not the norm. I just don't understand why he would take it so lightly when I talk to him, and have such a lack of concern for my feelings. I can't get him to get involved in church with me, or with other christian men, and he doesn't seem to want to fellowship with anyone. I know how important community is and I miss it so much! Any advice?