Growthtrac Community

[ziadelsol]

Hello,

I am hoping that some people here may be able to give me some insight and direction. My wife and I are going through a very difficult time. I have always been taught that when you are in a verbal argument with someone you love or care about that when things are getting heated that instead of continuing to argue and saying mean and hurtful things that a person should take a time out to cool off. Unfortunately my wife does not think the same as I do and when things are being said in the heat of an argument to purposely hurt the other, I try to call a time out and to walk away to cool off. She just follows me continuing to yell at me and accusing me of walking away from the marriage. When I try to walk away it is only for a few minutes to the next room to take a few deep breaths and to calm down.
I do not stay angry for long and can calm down pretty quickly. When I try to stay quiet and to calm down in her presence she just sits there badgering me to say something or to answer her. She knows how to push my buttons. While she curses at me and yells profanity at me and calls me all sort of names, If I curse in her presence she accuses me of being uneducated and being a racist. 5 years ago I made the mistake of calling her a name in the heat of an argument and have not done so since. I am at my wit's end trying to argue fairly with her. We made a pact to not get angry and argue in front of the kids, yet she still does and when I try to remind her that we agreed not to argue in front of them she continues to get louder and louder.. This is only a small portion of our problems. I am the cause of most of our problems and it is due to my lack of attention to details that starts most arguments. I am in the course of trying to address my faults as a husband and a human being.
I am ashamed to say that I only asked the lord back into my heart last January and am making an effort to devote my life to the lord and to my family. I grew up in a christian home but for the last 21 years I was negligent and turned away from God Thanks to any advice on how to handle this. I have asked my wife since May of 2008 to seek counseling with me and she has finally agreed. Our first appointment is this next week.

Thanks

[rdsmith3]

It's great that you are both going for counseling, and that you recognize your role in the marital problems. I suggest that this issue is something you bring up during a calm moment, not during an argument. It is fine for you to set a reasonable boundary with your wife. Be consistent and firm in stating your desire for a timeout.

[rick_b]

You might want to pick up a book called "Love and Respect". In there they talk a lot about the "crazy cycle" where the husband is failing to love and the wife is failing to respect. Its a good (though sometimes repetitive read). There are tons of things online that talk about it. Try googling "Love and Respect". You can get the shortened version of it out there in a lot of places.

Congratulations on asking God back into your life. He is now in perfect position to redeem your marriage. Start praying for him to do so and include him as the the 3rd person in your marriage. One thing I have heard over and over is about praying before conflict. Sometimes we dont' always know when an argument is going to erupt, but if you guys have something you want to discuss, can I suggest saying a quick prayer before you do? Go find a place to talk about it in your home, and if things are getting heated, humbly take a time out.

It doesn't matter if your right or she is right, what matters is your relationship. Pride and ego often times want us to win the argument, but being humble is much better for the relationship. Imagine that God was prideful, and every time we sinned he rubbed it in our faces and told us, "I told you so".

[rdsmith3]

Another good book is "Boundaries" by Cloud and Townsend

[km]

The "Love and Respect" book has a lot about this very scenario. It is an absolutely brilliant book which I can't recommend strongly enough.

When men are in an argument that gets heated in that way, we are programmed to step away - if we don't want it to escalate to fisticuffs. Women do not understand this. It is a source of huge battles between the sexes.

Bring this up in counseling.

A note to the ladies - when you husband checks out of an argument and walks away, he is often doing so because you have him at a point where continuing with it will force him into a situation of responding dishonorably (with a substantial chance of him doing violence). He doesn't walk away because he doesn't love you or value you, he walks away because he absolutely has to shut himself down to avoid doing violence (possibly to you).

[veggiemelt]

I understand that when men feel that the argument is going nowhere or becoming frustrating that they want to walk away rather then become really angry and say things that they maybe don't mean. I have seen my husband very angry at times, and he does in fact walk away, however, it is not just saying I think we should cool down for a minute and maybe talk about this later. It is him saying that he is "done" and walking away from the relationship. He completely gives me the idea that it is over and he leaves. I never know for sure that he is even coming back, although he always has. But when he comes back, he says that he will forget we ever had the conversation and that he is willing to give it one more try.

I don't know what that really means. But what I have learned by deduction over the years is that
1. When he walks away, he does not ever want to have that subject brought up again.
2. That he does in fact have the capacity to leave if I bring up the wrong subject or issue, and therefore I always have an underlying fear that one day he will just leave and not come back. Every time he leaves I believe it is for real and I spend the time that he is gone preparing myself to let go.
3. There are certain things that will never be resolved because this is his way of removing them from the picture, it is a threat, in other words, I either deal with it the way that it is - or it is over, there is no compromise, I just need to accept whatever it is and never talk about it.
4. I will at times push the argument if I feel strongly about it, because I know that he will not ever bring it up again later and if I try, he will get mad at the first sign of it.

Here is the problem, ignoring things does not make them go away. Walking away and never talking about it again, does not make it go away. So, what does that leave us with?

If I knew that my husband just wanted some time to gather his thoughts and that he would be willing to discuss it again at a later time, I would have no problem just letting it go for now. But, this is what I do now, and he still says - I will forget we ever had this conversation, and he will never talk about it again.

There are like 5 or 6 things in or marriage that always create conflict. I think there is a reasonable solution or compromise or even an understanding that we could come to. Why is it so difficult to have a reasonable conversation and try to work it out? I would say that most women feel this way, it is probably the reason why we push it. If there is a problem, it needs to be fixed. Guys have this instinct to fix everything, why do they become so resistant to fix relationship issues? In my own husband's case, it is usually because he does not want to accept responsibility for his actions, or because he does not want to see fault in himself, plus he is stubborn and often even when he knows he is wrong, he will not budge - he will just say it is the way that he is. Do all guys try to find an excuse to not accept that they might be wrong? Or is there something that we do as women that makes guys mad and you just refuse to compromise because you are mad at us.

I am not placing a blanket of blame, just trying to figure it out. Fighting takes on a pattern that seems to repeat itself, there has to be a way to break that pattern, but I have yet to figure it out.

[km]

There are some men who walk away from "discussions" in order to avoid addressing subjects that they don't wish to address. I was NOT talking about them. Having a calm and reasoned "discussion" of things is the adult way to deal with problems.

I was getting at "fights". A man walking away from a "fight" is his way to stop escalating when he is at the brink of blowing up (and women have their ways of avoiding/ending these too - e.g. tears and emotional manipulation, or changing the subject to bring up every other "wrong" she - or any other woman - has ever endured).

From a man's standpoint - a lot women do a whole lot of 'dirty' fighting.

[veggiemelt]

I will give you that one km, women do tend to get off topic during a discussion for especially during a fight and we can be a little manipulative there. However, in our defense, I would like to point out that men need to remember that for women everything is about everything. We do not have the ability to seperate things into boxes, everything is somehow connected together for us. A good way to bridge this gap is to not ignore the new subject, but to simply say, that is another matter that I really would like to work on, but for now we are dealing this this. It validates her, while keeping her on track. The last thing you want to do is shut her down which is where we get frustrated and the emotions take over.

Also, I would like to point out that while there are times when women will "use" tears when nothing else is working. Most of the time it is real and when you see tears, it is because our pain is showing on the outside. It is not actually a bad thing, it is really a good thing as when we are given the chance to cry and let it out, there is much less chance for resentment or hanging on to feelings which can turn bitter. Women who have learned to control the tears because it makes their husband angry, have also learned to concele our true emotions and wherefore what we say becomes bitter in order to keep ourselves turned off inside, it is to avoid paid, so it comes out as anger.

I think that men learn to shut us out when we start crying because there probably have been too many times when we have misused it. This is sort of a blanket statement, but I believe it is actually a very true comparison. Men often have issues of wanting "control" women often have issues with trying to "manipulate" to get what we want. One fuels the other I believe which is where probably most of us get stuck and probably in the end why fighting never really ends in resolution.

Once again, I will state in accordance to this thread, when one partner starts trying to resolve things and wants to turn in a new direction, it is difficult to beat or over come though old patterns. Fighting or even discussing fairly is hard because no matter how hard you try to remain calm, the other person is still exhibiting the behavior that drives you over the edge to being irrational or no longer being able to listen to what the other person is saying. I do think the counseling is a huge help here in recognizing those patterns. However, making a joint practice to break those patterns is really the only way to retrain a relationship. One person can only make a certain amount of progress here. I have found myself praying during the middle of arguments lately, it has helped alot in moving through things more calmly. I am going to give my husband quite a bit of credit here as well as though he still stops the discussion, he has gotten much better about not completely walking away. Baby Steps, I guess.

[rdsmith3]

Sometimes in a marriage, one person wants to be right. It is really important for that person to be right, no matter what the cost. It is really important for that person to be heard, no matter what the cost. That is pride, pure and simple, and it is the root cause of many (most?) problems in a marriage.

I think it is reasonable for a person to call a time out when things are getting heated, provided it is not done as a means to avoid conflict, or to control or manipulate the conversation, and it is done in a spirit of humility. Again, I think it has to be done firmly and consistently. For example, if the spouse starts to make personal attacks, it is probably time to stop the "conversation". If you are consistent every time this occurs, then the pattern should change.

[ziadelsol]

Thank you for all of the replies and suggestions. I will look for those books this week. Let me clarify that I am not trying to avoid the subject or reason that we are arguing, I know that they need to be addressed and resolved. Unfortunately my wife knows exactly how to push my buttons and get me angry, I would never hit or physically touch my wife or any other woman for that matter in an argument. It is in fact the other way around, she has hit and kicked me and even to the point of poking me with a knife in one argument while I was trying to walk away to cool off. She has since the start of the thread left the house, even though she says she does not want a divorce she is taking the summer for a seperation and will return in August. She not tell me where she is at whenever she feels like returning my phone calls and says that she is leaving it up to God on whether we stay married. Yet when I approach her to share a prayer with me or to go to counseling, she accuses me of pressuring her and will not even think of praying with me and says that we can go to counseling in August and that she just needs time away.

I do not know anymore of what to do. I try to be patient and not pressure her but I am at my wits end on what to do.

Thanks again everyone, god bless and take care.

John

[rdsmith3]

If you recognize that she is pushing your anger buttons, then I am going to add a book to your pile. I am reading one now called, From Anger to Intimacy that tells you how to break out of that cycle. It is by Gary Smalley and Ted Cunningham. So far, I think it is a pretty good book.

[SAM]

Anger to Intimacy is a great book -

There is an oldie but goodie by Tim and Joy Downs called Fighting Fair.