Growthtrac Community

[Monkeyman]

Hello!

My girlfriend and I knew each other for 4 years through going to the same College with each other. Then, for over a year we became the best of friends, talking almost every night, until in fact we did talk every night. We had, had crushes on each other during this entire year, and finally I got up the guts and told her how I felt, bought expensive flowers, and made a fancy dinner. We've been together and madly in love with each other for little under half a year now.

While we both know each other very well, have known each other for quite a while, only continue to make it a priority to get to know each other better, and want to spend the rest of our lives together knowing that we've made a well-thought out decision, her parents do not feel the same way. In fact, the don't approve of me at all.

I've talked with them, I've sent flowers, I've pleaded, I've talked to their Pastor, I've talked to other members of their church, of their family, and so on but they seem impossible to reach. I'm not talking about marriage. We haven't even mentioned that to them yet. I'm just talking about me caring about their daughter.

Why? Well, you see, although they claim that they accept everyone as equal and that their faith and religion is the most important thing in their lives that they won't compromise for anyone... they do not accept me as an adequate partner for their daughter because I am caucasion and they are Chinese, because my parents had gone through divorce, and because they do not believe that I am in fact Christian.

Before we started dating, however, and they only knew me as one of her best friends, they loved me. They constantly pointed out how polite I was, and how nice of a guy I was. As soon as we both showed our affections for each other this came out of nowhere, although my girlfriend was terrified of them and saw it coming. They say horrible things about me on a daily basis to her, and about our relationship. The judge me without even knowing me, jumping to irrational conclusions about trivial things such as my health and financial situation (which, by the way, I'm perfectly healthy and have plenty in the bank). They even went so far as to try and convince her I wouldn't be suitable because my father died when I was younger and that would of left me a very unstable person probably with depression.

They use the "honor thy father and thy mother" line almost every chance they get, accusing my girlfriend of being disobedient and that if they say someone is wrong for her then they most definitely are. Her mother says she simply cannot ever accept me because I come from a family that has had divorce in it, which leads her to believe that my family is not a real loving Christian family. She asks my girlfriend constantly why she has to do this to the family, why she has to be selfish and blinded by love, going after someone that her parents don't approve of, and someone that isn't Chinese. She's said that she doesn't understand why her daughter can't be with someone that's Chinese so that she can brag to all of her friends overseas, so that she can be proud.

They're afraid of what the rest of the family will think. The grandparents especially. All of their family claims to be extremely Christian too, by the way. Grandparents included. Although they all control each other, all rule each other with fear, and none of them accept anything but Chinese as adequate mates for the their family members.

We spoke with my girlfriend's Pastor, her and I, he whom just so happens to also be a good family friend of their's. They were very angry that we spoke with him, mostly because they thought we were going to down talk them and spread rumors or something. Regardless, her Pastor tried to encourage us that although her parents love her very much they're probably just not showing that in the right way and don't realize they are hurting their daughter. He encouraged us that we aren't doing anything wrong by loving each other, and in fact that love is actually something as Christians that we should all -encourage-. He helped a lot, but her parents refuse to speak with them or hear what he had to say to us on their own.

All of this is taking an incredible toll on my girlfriend. She has to sit through this sort of thing daily. 21 year old adults, her already graduated from College and starting her life, and her parents can't let her make her own decisions about anything, least of all who she's to love. Its gotten to the point where she isn't as affectionate with me anymore because she's either depressed or reminded of how irrational they are. I give her a lot of space and only try to encourage and support her, but it still... its a lot for one girl to handle to have her parents constantly at her throat trying to tell her she's wrong for loving the person she wants to spend the rest of her life with, not to mention trying to use the word of God against her.

I don't know what to do anymore. We've thought about writing them and the rest of her family all letters, because they can't immediately argue with written words. We've thought about forcing a meeting or intervention with the Pastor. We've thought about simply running away together. All we know is that this situation cannot be fair, can it? That what they are doing is wrong, isn't it? It can't be right to use "honor thy father and thy mother" in a way to control the people you love? It can't be right to claim you're an amazing Christian that accepts everyone as equal and then turn and say "but not when it comes to marrying my daugher... only this race is good enough," can it? Its about what she wants for herself, isn't it? If either her parents or I really love her, then we should be able to put her before ourselves, shouldn't we? Shouldn't her happiness and life choices be more important than what we want for her ourselves?

We're both Christian, we're both 21, we both went to the same College, took the same illustration and graphic design program, knew each other for a looooong time, thought things out and made sure we really loved each other and wanted to fight for this before we even told her parents about us... what are we doing wrong? Does God does not want this? Is he punishing us? Me?

Her mother says that if God really wanted her and I to be together he would of changed her heart and her mind by now. I don't believe God would magically change people's hearts and minds entirely. I know he could, and definitely influences us all, but to just change them for us or make us have epiphanies like her mother thinks he will... That would defeat him giving us free will, wouldn't it?

sigh

Its 3:30 AM and I've got another sleepless night ahead of me. I get to think of why I can do no sin, accept and forgive, love and care, and be attacked for loving someone. I can't help but bawl my eyes out every time I'm alone wondering if she'd be better off without me. She makes me happier than any other person in the world. I get along with her better than anyone else, and I always have. She's my best friend, and I love her more than anything. I've dated, had serious relationships before, but nothing compares to this. We actually thought this all out, we actually took the time to develop things and made sure we weren't being naive about how well we work together... but no. The only problem we've faced in our relationship that we can't deal with is that someone else is attacking us and saying I'm not good enough for her because of my background or my skin color, and that if God disagreed with him then he'd change their minds.

I just don't know what to do anymore. I can't lose her.

[SAM]

Welcome, we're glad you decided to post here.

I honestly don't think this has anything to do with her parents being good or not good Christians - it has everything to do with honor and respect in their culture. More than anything, it is a cultural issue that collides with their faith. They have to reconcile that but shoving in their face and that of your girlfriend is disrespectful. It isn't a matter of who's right and whose wrong here as followers of Jesus Christ. You can be right all you want, but it's not going to get you anywhere in this situation other than to cause division amongst everyone.

A meeting with their pastor would be helpful. He is a neutral party and can work at bringing you together. You need to hear out their objections with respect. As a family, if they want you to wait before moving forward in marriage, to get to know you better, then that is something to consider.

One of their objections is you are not Chinese, the other is - you come from a divorced family. That may not be valid to you, but it is important to them. In God's eyes you are all equal in color, but the divorce issue may be a huge one to them. This is where the pastor can say, I will spend the next 6-8 weeks with this couple and help them walk through any issues surrounding divorce in the family and your father's death and anything else they need to do to be a healthy couple ready for marriage.

Again, in their culture divorce may be absolutely disgraceful. For their daughter to marry someone who has divorced family members, is like putting a black seal on their family. Again, it's important to look at this from a cultural perspective.

Another thing to consider is, will this family continually influence your girlfriends decisions even once she is married? Will she be strong enough to stand up and set appropriate boundaries? This is where some pre-marital counseling would be helpful to you both. Otherwise, you could end up with a loyalty issues between you and a family that interferes too much.

Your girlfriend is obviously torn between her love for you and her love for her family. Making her choose is really unfair - she shouldn't have to at this point, you're not married.

Some things to consider -

1) If you run away together to get married - her family will probably disown her and that will cause great pain.

2) It is important to leave and cleave. This means leaving your parents and cleaving to your spouse once you are married. Sometimes parents have a really hard time letting go. This is something you need to seriously consider. Also, sometimes it is really hard when you have been close to your family, to also let go.

3) Honor and saving face are of huge importance in the Asian culture. You're right, her parents are probably worried about what other relatives are going to think. Is it important to them, obviously.

We've thought about writing them and the rest of her family all letters, because they can't immediately argue with written words.

I would recommend NOT doing this. The best way to talk through issues is face to face, not with letters. It will backfire on you. I'm speaking from personal experience on this one.

What are we doing wrong? Does God does not want this? Is he punishing us? Me?

Sometimes we want things very desperately, but God puts up warning signs and red flags in front of our face that say "whoa, slow down, take a deep breath, pray about this more, seek me more and wait". The thing is, we don't to wait - we want to do it, when we want to do it and move ourselves ahead of god's work and plans for us.

Do you think he might be saying, slow down and wait? Have you prayerfully considered this? If there is still turmoil and uncertainty on your part or that of your girlfriend to move toward marriage, then that's a really good sign that you need to wait. If God is truly involved, there will be extreme peace about this decision, if not, then God's not part of the equation - your thoughts and desires are. And, that may not be what God wants for you - at least right now. It may mean WAIT.

[babycakes]

Glad you're herewith us and that you posted.

Something to think about -

God may have put you in this role for a reason. You may not be able to marry this young woman, even though you love her. It's a possiblity that you will have to let go.

But there is something to teach this family - that even though you are a different race, that God's love and acceptance reins no matter the color.

There are preconceived stereotypes that surround us, even though we are all God's children. Such as her parents being concerned about saving face, concerned because your father died and concerned because there is divorce in your family. Some of these issues may be cultural and some may be because they are simply scared and want the best for their daughter. They don't want someone who has wounds.

While that is an unrealistic expecation (we all have wounds), it is their expectation for their daughter. SAM is right - it's not a matter of right or wrong, it's really a matter of what can you teach this family about Christ's love? How can you show them, without argument, how much you love them and love their daughter? You'll have to depend on Christ's source of love for this, as your own will probably not be enough.

Sure this is painful. But we don't go through trials in our lives without a purpose for God growing us up through them and learning to depend on him more.

Getting no sleep and worrying isn't going to help either. There's a ton of scripture with the words - "do not fear' and "don't worry".

Matthew 6:34 - Do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

Philippians 4:6-7 Do not be anxious about anything, bu in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And, the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

Maybe it is time to sit back and WAIT. The heat is on right now. Let it cool. Waiting is not easy but it's important as SAM said.

The real question is: Do you trust God enough to work through this situation? If He were to ask you face-to-face, "Do you trust Me?"

What would your answer be?

[Monkeyman]

I trust God, but he gave us all free will, and even if it is not in God's best interest for them to hate me forever, they can.

Is it not true that religion is supposed to come before tradition and cultural differences? I can't find the passage right now, but I read that it is alright to go against your forefathers if the dispute is over tradition, because the right path is through God, and not traditional values.

I think you're right and it might be best to give the letter idea more though, although the Pastor also recommended it. Her family is going on a cruise near the end of the summer and he recommended -after- the cruise telling the rest of her family about me and writing them all a kind but well grounded letter. Most of them don't live in the country, so I believe that might be the main reason for this. I'm going to speak with him more about it though.

The thing about waiting is that as long as we wait they are still being cruel. It has gone on for months now, and it -is- our only unsolved relationship issue. We are perfectly happy together, the best of friends before, and still. Her parents have tried to say "Why would you do this if no one wants you to?" to which she replies "But everyone else we talk to, all our friends, even our family and his family all support us... everyone supports us, except you, and it doesn't make sense." And it doesn't. Its not that they've gotten to know me and dislike what they see, because they haven't even given me a chance. Trying to speak with them and simply asking how their day was and I am given the coldest of tones and replies, sometimes the silent treatment, awkward stares and glares. Yet before, when I was just a friend, they exhibited no xenophobia at all. They did not act like a traditional Chinese family, they acted like a stereotypical westernized Christian family of Chinese descent. They only began to bring out the argument of their strong "traditions" when they found out my girlfriend liked me. Explaining that it was not only "like" but "love" didn't merit a positive result.

[SAM]

You can be dead right about this issue, but still be completely wrong because what good will being "right" get you?

I agree Christianity before tradition - scripture says it. Again it is very hard to break cultural ties. For that reason, you need to be more understanding and more patient.

Also, be very, very careful that you do not speak unkindly about your girlfriends parents to her or to others. Always speak of them well and with kindness. Do not bad mouth them to others.

[Monkeyman]

Yeah, I'm completely aware being right isn't going to solve anything. Definitely didn't mention that, no worries there guys and gals. If I thought being right was enough then my girlfriend and I wouldn't have to consult her Pastor for counselling on the situation and what to do, or post online in places like this for counsel from you either! hehe Don't worry about that.

As for being patient, that's the thing. We've been more than patient. That's exactly what the Pastor said as well at the time- just wait and see how things develop with them. Now though, its been months, like I said, and they only get worse. We've spoken with the Pastor again since then, and are going to speak with him again. He's encouraged us to try new tactics and assured us that there is nothing we are doing that is wrong and that they are wrong for treating us this way and we simply have to try and get through to them. Simply being patient and waiting for some divine intervention is irresponsible and both expecting too much of God as well as testing him. And her parents not accepting me because of cultural differences is by no means no reason for us not to be together, and definitely not necessarily God saying we shouldn't either. To simply pass everything off in the world as God's actions and not our own, to take responsibility for nothing, to stand up against no injustice that comes our way, is not what he intended for us.

We have to be patient for results, always, but we have to take responsibility and innitiative for the situation that we've found ourselves in and simply find new ways of getting through to them that won't be detrimental or harmful in the long run, and hopefully that's something more people can offer through this forum.

[SAM]

I agree that sitting passively by and expecting God to work in his own time without counsel or wisdom or steps toward progress is not the best solution. I agree with you, I don't believe that's how God wants you to operation.

There's an element that's missing here - prayer. Going to your pastor and the elders for a laying on of hands and prayer.

I think the prayers of others can be big enough and strong enough to convict the hearts of her parents. Praying for God to send messengers to them (other than yourselves) who will open their eyes and help them to see God's hand and purpose.

Are you and your girlfriend praying daily for change? Are you praying daily for wisdom? Are you praying daily for patience? Are you praying daily for self-control? Are other Christians praying daily for you? Have you asked them to?

Trusting God, instead of your own desires, for the outcome is huge.

[Monkeyman]

We've both been praying constantly. I pray for our situation whenever I have a spare moment, whenever I'm driving alone, and before I sleep every night. We've prayed together, we pray with the Pastor, he prays for us, I've sent prayer requests to our church, e-mails to the church and ministry for help and prayer, many if not all of my religious friends are praying for us as well. : )

If you would like to pray for our situation I would be more than grateful.

I feel I cannot ask God for a lot. I ask that he soothes my girlfriend's mother's heart and brings her closer to him, and eases the suffering of my girlfriend as well. I ask that he helps my girlfriend fight for and earn her independance and rights are a person of free will and as a Christian under his creation.

[Monkeyman]

She asked her mom if she was praying for our situation to turn out well at all, and if she had been speaking with God at all instead of just getting angry... but she wouldn't answer.

[Monkeyman]

I've learned a lot in a very short period of time about a lot of things that were holding me back from growing spiritually and as a person in general. Some of these things I found important:


1. Pastors are not closer to God than anyone else

They are still considered ordinary humans, with the same opporunties in having a close relationship with God same as anyone else. They have no magical and unexplained power. And I will only continue to ask about this and everything else tomorrow. They are not closer to God than anyone else, and to look to them as such is wrong.


2. Pastors are not inspired

They do receive instructions from God, as in commands, or prophecy, or messages, etc. Men who are accomplishing Gods work, do so by means of Him, only by being directed or guided too. Their word is not God's.
Pastors are not inspired and to look to them for anything more than reiterations of the bible, God's teachings, and encouragement is wrong. They cannot interpret signs from God, just as any other human being.


3. God does not 'change' His mind, with regards to things He has said previously

Therefore, he would not direct his students to say he did, which means that someone who IS doing that, is not doing what God asked him/her to do.


4. God didn't advise his shepherds to impute their will on peoples lives

What does that mean? Should they ever tell someone they think they should break up with someone else?

Thats none of their business. Someone can give advice based only on the Bible.
For example, if someones mate is committing adultery, the Bible says that God views that as disgusting
and that in that situation, he would approve of a divorce. If you simply did something wrong in some way, you should be able to work it out and fix it with the person you love, and a Pastor should be encouraging that, not trying to disprove your love for one another.

In this situation, because there is someone putting words in His mouth, claiming to be doing His will, when that clearly goes against what God said himself in the Bible.

That would be like my neighbor, going as a self proclaimed representive of me, having no connection to me, doesn't even know me, going to my girlfriend or my Mom and saying, "because of what happened, Spencer doesn't love you now."


5. God builds relationships and doesn't meddle in them

God promotes relationships. If anything, god promotes positive feelings in general, and everyone should be able to agree on that. He promotes second chances, love, faith, devotion, forgiveness, humility. Good things. He promotes happiness. And his way of showing you if these things are real is by the fruits they provide inside that relationship or circumstance. In no way does true love have to open up the hearts of the bystanders around it.


6. The holy bible, Christianity, God, and Jesus encourage people to love and show positive feelings and emotions, not discourage.

When the product of a relationship is good fruit, you know it is a good relationship. If the people in it are happy and truly love each other, this is good fruit. You can tell when people are misguided or when something is a farce by the fruit that it merits and by comparing it to the word of God set out in the bible. God encourages us to love and build relationships with each other. People are clearly miserable and unhappy when they are not allowed to build relationships. This is bad fruit. God does not meddle in those relationships unless one of the people involved is hurting the other in a case like adultery. He does not influence his shepards to break relationships apart or give them the right to decide which relationships are good or not.


7. When you have a problem, you are to seek an answer to that problem. You are to be honest. Seek help from a friend, if that does not work, from two friends, if that does not work then seek help from your entire congregation.

If you have a problem with someone you go to them first. If that does not work, you seek help from friends and then your like-minded people. You also forgive them and don't assume the worst.

--

I'm going to continue to speak with Christians, pastors, friends, friend's pastors, and so on until my questions are all answered. So far though, seperate of each other and not knowing what one another has said, everyone has told me those above things in response to my situation and my questions. All of these things are in response to the situation that I found myself in, things people have tried to tell me, and things I was finally sick of hearing and knew I needed to clear up. I am hurt and confused by what I have found myself dealing with. Most of all, I am disappointed. I do not deserve to be treated the way I have been.

Yet all I can find myself doing is forgiving everyone involved, trying to think happily and positively of them, and continuing to love all of them.

[greenwidow]

My mother loved my boyfriend...right up to the point that it was obvious he was going to become my husband. It would have been the same with ANYONE I finally came to be with. She didn't want to let go.

You will continue to have problems with this relationship, unless your intended is willing to make God and then you a priority in her life. It is incredibly traumatic for a dutiful daughter to go against her parent's wishes. A loving daughter does try to honor her parents.

With that said, I did a lot of damage to my marriage with trying to continue being the dutiful daughter. You can't have it both ways. God calls us to join ourselves with our spouses and start a new family. You don't have to be disrespectful, you just need to be one with your spouse in the face of everything else in your life.

Sit with your beloved and read about Naomi and Ruth. In the Book of Ruth we find the story of three women, all widowed, one Jew and two Moabites. The Moabite people were hated by most of the Jewish population, but Naomi and her husband had been living in Moabite territory when their sons became of age to marry. They both married Moabite women. Upon the death of all the males in the family, Naomi decides to return to her homeland. It would have been very easy for Ruth to have returned to her family and remarried, someone of her own culture, but she packed up everything and followed her mother-in-law, because she had joined that family. She was now Jewish. It might have been hard for Naomi's Jewish family, in Jerusalem to have accepted a Moabite into the family, had God not touched Boaz' heart. He redeems the family line and marries Ruth. Their child Obed is the father of Jesse, the father of King David. Without this woman of a strange and offensive culture becoming part of this Jewish family, God's plan would not have been complete.

The Bible has many examples of how someone that man finds unthinkable for the task is exactly the one that God has chosen.

You may need to step back from this situation and tell your girlfriend that although you feel God wants you to be together, you are willing to wait until she can settle things in her mind. She has to become her own person before she can be joined to you. It's not easy.

[Monkeyman]

One of the elders from my church spent 15 years being hated by his wife's mother. She tried to split them up numerous times, and did not attend the wedding. Those 15 years later she became a Christian and accepted him just before she died. I spoke with him about this and about how important it is that you don't give up on love. He told me that if both people believe its true love, and feel that it is, then no one should be able to break them apart and also have no right to.

[Monkeyman]

I recently took a very long 10 hour drive back to my hometown to speak with a new Pastor about some recent events, as well as many elders, family members, friends, and other trusted individuals.

I had written a prayer request. It was brief, 2 paragraphs, anonymous (no names), and basically just said that my girlfriend and I were subject to attack from her parents, they say racist things about me, and overall say hurtful things about both of us to try and break us apart. I asked for any advice at all, and for people to pray that my girlfriend's parent's hearts be soothed, and also that if I may take any more stress in return for my girlfriend feeling less I would do so and ask for prayer in that as well.

The Pastor we had been speaking to called me into the church and told me what I did was wrong. He told me what I did was an attack on her parents. I explained to him that I was not intending to attack anyone, kept things anonymous so no one would even know who I was talking about in such a large and mixed church, that I was honest and still barely even said anything, I didn't describe them or the situation enough to give anyone any idea of who they were, let alone who I was. He knows full well that no one at the church knows me at all, and the only way he knew it was me sending the prayer request was because he was the only person we had spoken to about things to begin with, he was the only one that knew what was going on, and he was the only one that knew my e-mail address to really determine it was me to begin with. I explained that I did not ask any harm to come to anyone but myself, and that I was only honest and seeking advice or prayer.

He didn't like any of that and completely disagreed. To him, my intention was to attack, he would not believe me. He told me I was selfish, self-seeking and that I did not really love my girlfriend. Next he told me that we needed to end our relationship. I asked him why if I had done something wrong even why he would not forgive me and give me another chance, even though it is not even his place to decide who is together or not. He just shook his head and looked at the floor. He told me my girlfriend was already there, that he had called her in, showed her my prayer request and convinced her that it was an attack on her parents but also a sign from God that we should not be together, that it wasn't real love, and that I was a selfish, self-seeking person. He then asked if he could bring her in now to break up with me.

I asked him again, why I could not be forgiven if I had done anything wrong, and he accused me of acting out of desperation. I explained that I wasn't, that I love my girlfriend more than anyone else save for God, that I did not act selfishly and was not attacking anyone, that I was and am honestly confused by my situation and need prayer and guidance. He just continually repeated himself, that I was selfish, that I did something bad and wrong, that she was there waiting, that it was a sign from God, on and on.

I let him bring her into the room since he obviously wasn't budging. He started saying the same things once she was there and I told her that I wasn't attacking anyone, that I wasn't being selfish. The prayer request was sitting right there, and I read it out again myself, it was anonymous, there was no identifiers to point at anyone, I did not say anything mean about her parents at all. She was confused and was more or less like "You didn't..?" And I was like "No..?" The Pastor would not let me explain myself, and repeated what he already accused me of, then explaining that he knew her parents very well and did not believe they were racist or doing anything racist to me or us. And that's where it made a little more sense. He thought we, or just I, had been lying all along, or so it seemed.

Since though her Pastor has been in her life all her life, she did not know what to do. He had apparently had her at the church for a long time before I arrived, convincing her that I was no good for her, that I was selfish, self-seeking, that it wasn't real love that we had, and so on. He was reluctant to leave the room but eventually did. She told me that he had convinced her that it was not God's will for us to be together and we had to stop seeing each other. I told her that I truly loved her and that this was all so wrong, but she insisted that she had to listen to the Pastor and he said we needed to break up.

So, I went on my 10 hour drive and I spoke with everyone I could think of, but most of all I spoke with a new Pastor that I had recommended to me for being very unbiased, thorough, helpful and encouraging.

What this Pastor explained to me was how the other Pastor had broken confidentiality, had broken my own trust, that he was wrong to go to her with my prayer request and it was none of his business, that he had no right to influence our situation as he did, that if he had a problem with me he knows he should of come to me, that he did not let me explain myself, that he would not believe a word I said, that he would not offer forgiveness even, and by all counts acted completely unpastoral.

The new Pastor got me to explain to him our entire relationship, everything from how we met and how long we've known each other, to sexual activity, how we are as a couple, what her parents have been doing, and so on. He asked a lot of questions.

He explained how wrong it was for the Pastor to do what he did, but also how wrong it is for the parents to do what they have been doing, exerting the control they have been and using the word of the bible against their daughter. He explained that "honor thy father and thy mother" cannot and should not be twisted into any sort of control. What it really means is that you should respect them, show them honor, things like that. It gives them no right to tell you who to love, and certainly not to make you feel bad about loving anyone they don't accept. He went on to explain how all the things they say are wrong and hurtful and obviously against God's wishes, and that I was not wrong to write the prayer request I did and be as honest as I was. He was completely baffled by how the other Pastor acted, especially with breaking confidentiality and going to my girlfriend like a child tattling on someone else.

He explained a lot of things and encouraged me a lot. He asked me if I thought she was worth it and if I really loved her, and of course I said yes. I don't usually drive through rain and thunder storms for 10 hours confused beyond belief seeking for someone to make it all make sense when I don't love someone! He explained that if she's worth it to me and I truly love her then I need to try and keep talking to her, get through to her and see if she can understand the same things he explained to me, and be patient while she realizes what she's really losing.

So, there's the gist of what's recently happened. Thoughts?

[Monkeyman]

If someone has to go against God's word, the will he set out for us, to send a message, what does that say about the message?

[bassman638]

I have some Christian friends whose daughter is engaged to a Christian man who they dissaprove of. I know both the daughter and the man she is marrying. They do have valid concerns however the daughter will not listen and things are tense between them to say the least. I have shared with them that their daughter is now and adult and she has to make adult decisions. It is tearing the mother up inside as she sees some characteristics in her potential son-in-law that will cause problems for their daughter and them down the road. The future mother-in-law is manipulative, domineering. The future son-in law is not really interested in a career (he is 29), thinks he is "going to make it big" in the Christian music industry (he does have some talent but not enough). So my friends are concerned for their daughters future as she does have a very good job. The guy does not own a car, mooches off his mother all the time (she buys him all sorts of stuff) I believe to control him etc etc etc. I hope you can get the picture. Both of my friends have shared their concerns with their daughter...to no avail. I have told them the best thing they could do is pray and leave the rest to God so as to not alienate themselves from their daughter. My question is this...are there any good books or articles that deal from a Christian perspective on dealing with this issue that I can share with them? Would deeply appreciate some help!

Repectfully,

bassman638