Growthtrac Community

[SAM]

Is this approach of silence, hiding (no disclosure) and lack of therapy really working well for the two of you?

Two years into this journey and you're still a long way from full restoration to your marriage. You are still grieving... anger being one of those components and replay of the event.

You have to ask yourself if this is the healthy way, or the safe way? If your wife were to know and understand your continued struggles, how do you think she would react? If I knew my husband was still in a hurting place, I would want to do everything I could participate in that process no matter what it took.

Couples seldom get beyond the devastation of infidelity without intensive therapy. A couple will live with it, sweep their fears and concerns under the rug. However, the pile under the rug never truly goes away - they keep walking around it.

There are weekend intensive therapy sessions available with several organizations throughout the US.
A long weekend away for the two of you may be the prescription for what ails your marriage and the turning point.
I pray this is something you will prayerfully consider.

[rdsmith3]

Sam, she has not seen a counselor. She won't.

No matter how it sounds, I know this to be true: She can't see one here.

We are in a small town and a state without much population. We both work with the professionals in this field and she would have to travel much too far in order to see a counselor and not have it circulate.

circulate it would.

It makes things very difficult.

With all due respect, I just don't buy this. I don't like to quote myself, but I still wonder if this is the case:

Perhaps you find pain and unforgiveness to be more familiar, and somehow more reassuring in a strange way, but it is not what God wants you to do. God has forgiven you for whatever you have done in your life. Complete healing and reconciliation are freely available to you, through Jesus Christ. He wants you to go and do likewise.

In late 2005 my wife and I drove over 400 miles round trip in one day for a counseling session with someone who was highly recommended. She was pregnant at the time, too. It was worth it.

Is your marriage worth it?

[j3anjean]

Blunt and honest, rd! I like it.

You are absolutely right. Bottom line is if you want your marriage to change then you will do the work to fix it. It isn't easy. It isn't fun. It is humbling. You may have to sacrifice the way others see you. Pride goes before the fall. You may have to sacrifice the way you see yourself. If it isn't worth it then your marriage won't last.

Edit** That seemed a little harsh.
Let me say this. For 6-7 years I worked for an insurance company in FL. More than once I would have someone come in and try to file a claim for water damage. It seems like a small leak, would cause structural damage or mold. Normally, if this was due to a maintanence issue, it would not be covered. Sometimes a leak would be covered, but was less than or barely more than the deductible. Folks would get mad. Why should they have to do this work? pay for this work? Why bother maintaining what you think should maintain itself? Sometimes, to save money or to save having a claim on their policy, they would try to fix the problem on their own. That didn't always work out. Sometimes that turned into a huge mess. There were folks that would go home and let that little leak turn into a big leak. The ceilings would collapse, flooring would curl up, walls would bubble and peel, mold would make the house uninhabitable. Then they would come back and file a huge claim. What a mess! It was frustrating.

Your relationship with your spouse is one of your most important, if not THE most important earthly relationship you will have. You guys are past the point of basic maintanence. You are to the point where you call in a contractor (counselor) and repair the damage before the marriage and your spirit become, for a better word, uninhabitable.

Sitting by, trying to do it yourself, trying to patch it up, watching the ceilings fall around you, is NOT working. Time to step it up a notch.

I'm praying for you both.

[resecured]

ESOM,

I contacted Focus on the Family for a counselor close to me. I was able to talk to one of their counselors for a bit but was then was given names of counselors to meet with face to face. I also believe that they offer over the phone counseling too. It's worth a shot, either way.

Am praying for you both.

-RJ-

[km]

I had good luck with telephone counseling (it was while I was out of work - and the price was scaled to fit what I was reasonably able to pay as well). My counselor was a grad student doing an internship to finish an additional certificate in the field, and was located 1000 miles away. I believe face-to-face counseling would be more effective, but the phone work was very helpful and I would recommend it if face-to-face isn't an option (as you assert).

[Empty Shell of a Man]

Well, it has been two full years since the most horrific day of my life in September of 2007 that she told me what she was doing.

Since I had no one to turn to, I found this forum and posted my pain for all to see. I have received nothing but kind and supportive words since then.

I hope that someone on the edge is able to read this pain and stop him or herself from crossing over in this vicious sin.

Two full years and the pain lingers. I am a different person than I was two years ago. I am not glad about being different; it is just a fact. I am a different person.

I am not a trusting person.

She has stated emphatically for 24 straight months that she did not have a physical affair and that the anti-depressant she was on left her void of any and all feelings. She has not changed her account at all. She continues, to this day, to say that there was no emotional void and that she has loved the way she has always been cared for. She repented, stopped the medication, and within a month, feelings returned.

For me, I never came so close to seriously ending my life as I did the day I typed the orignal thread. Not only was I serious, I wanted it to be a violent and ugly end for me. Thank God His grace was sufficient to carry me through.

For two years, she has been loving, obedient, kind, understanding, and loyal. Her obedience to Christ overrides her emotions; especially when dealing with people that hold her in contempt or are mean to her. She is an excellent example of Godliness, in word, speech, appearance, but mostly, in deed.

Yet, I don't think I will ever be able to feel that trust that I once had. When my guard gets too low, a bad dream hits. The guarded heart will not allow her in too close. I cannot. I so utterly trusted her with everything dear to me that the day she unloaded the bombshell still reverberates in my soul. In fact, I have given up ever thinking I could trust that deeply again. I trust, but not with that wonderful, deep, loving trust. And yes, it is a spiritual issue for me that I continue to wrestle with and will pray.

2. Laughter. Raised in Irish humor, I have always loved humor. I did not smile for the first 6 months to a year, but have noticed about myself that I don't smile or laugh much. Last week, I danced in the living room with my 9 year old daughter, laughing and being silly. Later, I became sad and thought, "I used to do this all the time; now I cannot remember the last time I was silly like this!" I have improved, but I am not what I was in terms of a merry heart that would doeth good, like a medicine.

3. Older. I have aged a lot in two years. I was always considered very youthful looking and although I still do not look my age, the greying came very quickly; and the laugh lines are no so pronounced since I don't laugh. I see pictures of myself and I turn away.

4. Heavier. I don't enjoy active sports any longer. I rarely walk and the extra weight is not good. I simply don't have the interest. Having a wonderful wife means having a wonderful life. I feel that it was robbed from me. One day I may get it back.

5. Less Anxiety. Thisis strange. I have less anxiety now and went off anti-anxiety meds. I think it is because I say to myself, 'if she does it again, so be it; I will be alone but I won't end my life over it" and with less care, there is safety; though less anxiety.

6. A bit more fatalistic. There is this resignation in me: there is no such thing as a faithful woman. I even feel that way in work when women subtly flirt. I am not interested in them at all. They often don't flirt repeatedly because they get no response from me. I think to myself that there is no woman who is faithful because I had believed that this one was so wonderful, and so loved and cared for, that it could not have happened. It did. I still can't bear to watch the TV show that she sent him an email about to find out if he liked it as much as she did. It makes me feel sick to my stomach.

So, please don't chastise me for feeling this way. I am much much better. No thoughts of suicide. No nightmares (just some bad dreams but less and less).

I still find pleasure in playing the guitar and I love my children. I have a good job. (that's another issue). I just want someone who may be thinking about cheating to read this and STOP and NOT hurt your spouse this badly. I'll never feel like a real man again. I know that. But maybe for you, the reader, it's not too late.

Maybe you can read this and repent before its too late.

[Empty Shell of a Man]

[quote="km"]I had good luck with telephone counseling (it was while I was out of work - and the price was scaled to fit what I was reasonably able to pay as well). My counselor was a grad student doing an internship to finish an additional certificate in the field, and was located 1000 miles away. I believe face-to-face counseling would be more effective, but the phone work was very helpful and I would recommend it if face-to-face isn't an option (as you assert).[/quote]

did this work out for you? hard to picture being counseled by a student....

I hope it did, though.

The other poster is right: silence has NOT helped.

[km]

ESOM - The counselor I had possessed a Masters Degree in counseling and had experience (as well as having been in a dfferent line of work for a number of years), but was adding a new sub-field of certification to work in - and so needed some 'internship' sort of supervised/guided work in that sub-field. I didn't have a complete rookie by any means.

Many pastors doing counseling only have a Masters Degree.

[SAM]

Dear ESOM -

What you describe about yourself in many ways mirrors the signs of depression. Have you considered this?
A conversation with your doctor and/or a support group may be very helpful.

Second... did you and your wife do any counseling together? If not, I would recommend spending some time
to boost up your marriage.

Trust is rebuilt one moment at a time.

Example: Today may be a good day, where there are no thoughts of the past and everything she told you felt good and true.

For today, thank God for his goodness and a day that was spent rebuilding trust. And, as each day goes by, you may find that you trust her more and more.

Continuing to pray for you and your marriage.

[rdsmith3]

I had the same thought -- you appear to be suffering from depression. There is nothing embarrassing or shameful about that, nor should there be about seeking help for it.

[km]

The depression angle comes through very loud and clear (at least as beign a very distinct possibility).

If you do pursue this (and you should), you'll want to be aware that anti-depression medications can be very effective, but are not without side effects. Many cause a decrease or elimination of libido, others have little effect (I seem to recall reading of one that sometimes increased it). Pay attention to the likely side effects when deciding on any medications for depression.

[Empty Shell of a Man]

Yes, the depression is real. I have been under a doctor's care for it for two years. On and off meds (now off); none seemed to help. What works best for me is exercise; but with depression, motivation is difficult.

We had a good Lord's Day yesterday and I spoke a lot. I told her that "we have a good marriage; but it is in the shadow of a great marriage", which is difficult.

I have to give an honest assessment in this:

We married and it was bliss. The hardest part was her job. I can't reveal too much but can tell you this: it would mean working with about the worst population you can imagine---the lowest of the low. During the job, she was hit with a terrible flashback, fear, and depression. She could not stop crying.
At MY urging, she went to the MD who prescribed a very typical drug for her. Within a few weeks, she had no more tears, but, difficult to notice, she stopped all feelings. No ups, no downs, nothing. She was in a haze. This is when she began to give in to his urgings to meet and email. I do believe her that it did not go physical, but as you have read, it devastated me because of the closesness and trust I had in her.

She repented and went off the meds. Within a month, she was "normal" again; loving Christian wife. I was the one who sank deeply with the betrayal. Two years ago, not only did I want to end my life, I wanted to do it violently.

I reached out to a pastor/counselor, via phone. He insisted that I call him only at a certain time. When I did call him, I was retraumatized by his harshness and cruelty. No need for details. He was several hours away and outside the circle of work for both me and my wife. When I did call a local counselor, things went south as well. We had one session (over the phone) and it was going to be too expensive. But, about 18 months later, I HAD to call him professionally. I was humiliated when he started with, "haven't we spoken before? you sound familiar?" and eventually figured it out. It wasn't pleasant.

since that time, I have spoken often with my wife many times, but each time I needed to talk, she felt pounded with guilt. She did not complain, but the hurt was obvious.

I was tormented, and sometimes, still am. For instance, she wrote to him that he was a nice dresser. In two years, I have bought all new clothes.
She commented about a TV program she liked. I cannot bear to see it.

The nightmares gave way to bad dreams, and slowly receded. I am much improved but still have some terrible moments. I have a lot of trouble trusting. It goes back to how wonderful she was before that horrific 4 months where I was able to share, and feel healing---real healing--end of bad dreams--about childhood abuse. We listened patiently to each other and helped heal each other. I trusted her utterly. Her example of Christ was amazing.

She is back. 1 month after the end of the meds, she was back to being a loving, Godly, forgiving, generous person. She will talk through flashbacks of trauma with me and has had a great deal of healing. Psalms are like medicine. She examples how to love enemies and has a terrific mind for the faith.

I need to begin walking to deal with the depression.

With her encouragement, I took up guitar playing, which I had done since a teeanger, but never grew past playing chords. I am fairly accomplished, almost 3 years into serious playing, and she purchased a beautiful performance guitar for me. It is a joy to play.

We go on.

She goes on with the memory of how she hurt me.
I go on with the memory of betrayal.

We both pray and must continue to do so for freedom from this horrific sin.

I do hope that this enormous thread has caused someone to stop before things go too far.

Strange how our Lord mentions this sin, especially above others, regarding marriage. It is a sin that is more sinful than any of us may know.

Thanks for the prayers, everyone.

[sedwards19]

First, let me begin by saying may God bless your union and anoint your spirit which is bound to your wife. I will give you my honest opinion. Do Not Give Up. You need to ask for the breastplate of righteousness, the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit. God did not make us weak. Our flesh is weak. You still blame yourself for what happened with your first wife. You can't expect forgiveness from God if you can't forgive yourself. Second, God has not forsaken you, he is there with you. His Grace is enough to sustain you. His strength is made perfect in your weakness. He is trying to make you stronger. You cannot move forward if you keep looking backwards. I know easier said then done. I saw something the other day that made so much sense...Choose to look through the windshield and not in the rear-view mirror.

You can do this. You have come this far. Question? Have you at any point had the will or the desire to leave? If not, then God wants you to stay and see His Glory and the promises that He made to you. He has already forgiven you...forgive yourself so you can be stronger for your wife.

I will leave you with this: 1 John 4:18...

There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

[SAM]

Welcome - sedwards19. Glad to have you with us. Thanks for posting.

I'm an NLT Bible kind of gal, although I grew up on the KJV.

I like really like the essence of 1 John 4:18.

18Such love has no fear, because perfect love expels all fear. If we are afraid, it is for fear of punishment, and this shows that we have not fully experienced his perfect love.

Although the Amplified Bible version does a beautiful job of pulling even more out of verse 17 and 18 -

17In this [union and communion with Him] love is brought to completion and attains perfection with us, that we may have confidence for the day of judgment [with assurance and boldness to face Him], because as He is, so are we in this world.

18There is no fear in love [dread does not exist], but full-grown (complete, perfect) love [a]turns fear out of doors and expels every trace of terror! For fear [b]brings with it the thought of punishment, and [so] he who is afraid has not reached the full maturity of love [is not yet grown into love's complete perfection and understanding].

[Empty Shell of a Man]

2 years 5 months. Still going forward.