Growthtrac Community

[cc6]

This is my first time and I just joined because I need HELP. I know that God is my ultimate help and has all the answers. I believe I stumbled across Growthtrac through the Holy Spirit guidance. Here goes.

I have caused quite a bit of damage in marriage during the early years and the time to rebuild is taking it's toll on me. I have read "The Power of a Praying Man" by Stormie Orman; "No More Excuses" by Tony Evans; and now I am taking the Dare to Love challenge. I'm not looking for a quick change that will not last, but I am looking for an everlasting change. Patience has not been one of my best qualities because of my past and some of my present. I have given all to God that I have and the enemy still bring some of my past to the forefront. My question is; How can I get through this and be patient while waiting?

[crystalvase]

Gosh, what a tough question. I am so sorry. I don't have answers, just thoughts. Before my rheumatoid arthritis was diagnosed I was lying sleepless in bed unable to get comfortable, and I had a "vision" not 3D or anything, just God speaking through my imagination. But in my heart's/mind's eye I could see Jesus kneeling in prayer over me and "feel" his tears falling onto me. It was amazing.

But I pray (for myself and others), not just that God will take the pain away, but that he will (quickly-lol) accomplish his "good, pleasing, and perfect" purposes through it, and then relieve the suffering. I have learned that suffering is extremely valuable in the economy of God's Kingdom.

God's name is Jehovah Rophe. Healing isn't something he does; it's something He IS, and I don't believe He can touch a life without bringing healing into it. Even though Scripture says he heals all our sickness and all our diseases, often God goes to work on us emotionally, psychologically and spiritually to heal first. The problem is pain. Healing doesn't come without it. And if it wasn't so bad that you hate-it-want-to-run-scream-claw-your-eyes-out, it wouldn't accomplish it's purpose. But oh how it grieves the heart of God to allow us to suffer so. That is why Jesus wept at Lazarus' tomb; he felt the pain of the people who loved him and missed him and were so confused, even though he knew in another moment (and this life is just a moment, a blink, like ripping a bandaid off) that He would fix everything. The Great I AM feels our pain NOW.

Thank you for writing.

[montanna]

CC6,

Welcome! God does bring us all here for a reason. I don't know the back ground, but it sounds as if your heart is in the right place to make your marraige better. Sounds like you are on the right path. I can only speak from my experience, it has been a yr since My H made his mistake... and the rebuilding had been great and so hard at the same time. He has lost paitence as well, When the person repents it is up to us to take it, forgive and move forward. Unfortunately it is hard to do. Soundds like your wife has had a tough time, Do you see a therapist.

What I have learned in myself, is that my reasons for holding on tot he pain, really have not had that much to do with my H. It is my own stuff that I am working thru. Do you and your wife have good open communication??? Very important... She needs to feel she can talk openly as you do as well.

Praying for you to have paitence and start seeing your hard work payoff.

bg

[charity1]

cc6,
There is no doubt we were all led to this forum. It is so awesome to have godly people that understand what you are going through and that can encourage you. As far as developing patience, the only advice I can give you is to remember that God's timing is not our timing. He is in control and knows when and how things should happen. That has been proven over and over in my life. We can't go wrong when we wait on the Lord. We can go wrong when we try to do His job for Him and try to force things to happen. Keeping your focus on God by lots of prayer and lots of Bible study makes the waiting much easier. It's when we get to feeling sorry for ourselves or start resenting our spouse's actions and start trying to manipulate them that we get into trouble. Just focus on being the kind of spouse God wants you to be, and everything else will fall into place.

[seeker]

It has been a long time since I started this thread. I have been through alot since I last posted. My marriage ended in divorce. My wife was having an affair in her workplace. I had to hire P.I. and get evidence of the affair and confront her because she would not communicate with me in any way shape or form. She would not end the affair so I filed for divorce. We worked out the terms of our divorce and have joint custody of our children and split time with them. I can however say that I tried everything that I could. She did not want reconciliation and now is starting to see the damage that she has caused. I don't think we will ever reconcile, but I can honestly say that God has watched over me and my family. One of my children actually came to know the Lord as personal savior during this time and we continue to go to church and read the Bible as a family. I think that things have gone as good as they possibly could have at home under the circumstances. It is still very difficult, but my relationship with the Lord has really grown. I have experienced what James meant when he said "Count it all joy". Just a word to everyone going through these horrible circumstances that the most important thing that you can do is to try to be obedient and trust in the Lord. This is still a work in progress and will be for a long time. I hope this helps someone in similar circumstances. The Lord has allowed me to see blessings in my life despite the end of my marriage. Romans 8:28

[SAM]

So sorry that this was the case for your marriage.
Nothing is impossible with God, and we can pray that your ex-wife finds the
love that fills her heart to overflowing.

People do heal and sometimes get back together after these damaging
circumstances. As long as neither of you remarries, there is always hope.

[dhawkmoon]

I just read thru this whole section before posting. There are a lot of sad hearts out there. In some respects, it's somewhat comforting to know you're not alone. It certainly feels like that at times. When we go to neighborhood parties and see all the other couples acting like everything is okay with them (but knowing differently from the vicious rumor mill) it's really depressing. I don't know of anyone who can honestly look me in the eye and say they are in a happy fulfilling marriage.

That, of course and unfortunately, includes me too. About 18 months ago, I caught my wife cheating. It was a bizarre circumstance that led to my discovery. Long story short, while "fooling around" with another man in car, her cell phone self dialed the last number called - me. She was obviously unaware that it had happened due to what I heard coming out of the phone for the next hour! I only listened hoping to hear a clue as to who it might be. It was pure torture! I actually regret it now in hind sight as I can't get the call out of my head some times. I confronted her when she got home. She first lied until I told her about the call. She said absolutely nothing happened more than kissing. She referred to it as your basic "make out session". Now I've been around the block a few times being in my mid 40s, but I've never experienced a "make out" session like that! She went on to say it was " a fully clothed incident". She also said it never happened before and will never happen again. Anyway, as you can imagine, after being together for over 24 years (married for the last 14) this did nothing but totally destroy my trust in her. This was about 18 months ago and as far as I'm concerned, she's done nothing to try and regain my trust or show any remorse. She blames me in many respects for her actions. I've had two job losses in the past 10 years due to collapses in the industries I was working - first in the early 2000s with the whole high tech/Internet bubble bursting and then again in 2007 with the collapse of the housing industry. Lucky me! I'm onto my third industry - let's pray this one is stable at least until I retire!

Our sex life has never had the frequency I thought was adequate ever since we got married. It has slowly eroded over the 14 years of marriage that going 6-8 weeks between was typical and the "the norm". She said it was all about quality not quantity. Granted we both agreed that when we did have physical intimacy that is was absolutely fantastic. She became much closer to an acquaintance she made thru a neighbor. This person was in a horrible marriage and had not had sex with her husband in what is approaching two years now. I guess my wife decided to follow suit as now it has been 10 months since we were together intimately. In the past 2-3 years, each year we had sex less than 10 times. That was difficult enough to deal with, but now with her withholding it from me for 10 months now - painful is an understatement. It's been so long now that my feelings for her in that regard are changing. I will always love her for what we had and as the mother of my children, but as a wife and lover - I'm not so sure the damage that has been done can be undone. Sure, I know all things are possible with God. But she still has to want to and all she wants to do is blame me for everything. She takes no accountability. We definitely have a serious communication problem as well. I still don't trust her one tiny bit. She got her own cell phone account a while back. She had been on my account, but got mad when I would ask her about certain calls on the bill. Her response - she switched to her own account and paperless billing. She'll go out some evenings or on a weekend day "shopping" and disappear for hours unaccountable. I'll try reaching her by calling her or sending a text with response. She'll always have some cockamamie story why she didn't get in touch with me. When she is at home, that phone is always with her and she keeps it locked with a security code and guards it like it’s the crown jewels. When I ask to see it, she flat out refuses.

Okay, I've gone on much longer than I anticipated. The bottom line is that I'm a healthy decent looking guy in his mid 40s that has plenty of love to give. Despite our long history, I can't go on like this any longer and I'm sorry, but I don't want to be one of those people who sacrifice everything" for the kids". I think the current situation is actually worse than divorce for them. It has to be tough seeing us argue every single day and complain about one another. Wouldn't it be better to see us both happy? I'm struggling so much spiritually as well due to this long period of no intimacy. I have women I know are interested in me, but won't approach me since they know I'm married. My wife thinks all her friends at work and in the neighborhood "have a thing for me". Come on man! That's just paranoid and crazy! I cheated on my wife 23 years ago, one year after we met. I've never touched anyone else since - especially during our marriage. She waits until we're married for 14 years with two kids to cheat on me. I am a Christian and am trying daily to draw closer to God. I, too, like others her watched Fireproof with my wife. It had no real impact on our marriage. I recently went out and bought The Love Dare (from the movie) in a last ditch attempt to save my marriage. I've started the process three times now and can't get past day three due to her crappy attitude. She talks down to me at least 80% of the time we communicate. The other 20% is like she's a different person. The nasty side clearly outweighs the nice side. I don't know what to do anymore. I've drawn a line in the sand in my mind. When we hit the one year mark of no intimacy, I'm out and will file for divorce shortly thereafter. I can't g on in limbo like this. We've talked and talked and talked and talked over the past few years, but nothing ever changes. We've talked counselors but never go. Maybe our race is run and it's just time to move on.

If you're still reading...thanks for listening. If you have any advice, I'm willing to listen. Take care and God bless.

[km]

What you're saying about the cell phone is pretty much textbook cheater's behaviour, add that to the rest of what you've said and one has to suspect that there is an affair (still) going on. If that is the case, things aren't likely to improve until the affair is outed, and ended.

[rdsmith3]

dhawkmoon

I read it. I am listening.

I have some of the "usual" questions to ask you.

- Have you tried to talk to her about the sad state of your marriage? Does she know about your line in the sand?

- Have you suggested counseling?

- Do you belong to a church, and is there a pastor or elder or someone else you can talk to?

- Do you think your wife sees what she did as a sin?

- Do you have male friends you can discuss this with, more than the usual "Did you see that game last night?" type of conversation?

I can empathize with your pain to some extent (not the adultery part, but the no sex part). I have also been divorced, and I can say that it is very painful (financially, emotionally, spirtually, etc.) and not necessarily better than what you have now. I am telling you this in the hopes of giving you incentive to somehow work this out.

[SAM]

If your wife will not go for counseling, please go for yourself.

There is so much more to this story that what is typed here, I am sure. Your wife committed adultery - plain and simple. She may think it does not count because there was no intercourse - baloney! It counts when you makeout with someone other than your husband. It counts when you covet another man, touch another man, kiss another man. It counts.

Simply tell her, you are not buying that the relationship has ended because of her secrecy regarding her cell phone. That what she did was adultery whether intercourse happened or not. And, that if you are to save your marriage, then getting help and having open disclosure is necessary.

Can you honestly walk away as a professed Christian, without remorse, knowing that you have personally done absolutely EVERYTHING you can do to save this marriage and honor God (instead of yourself) in the process?

You made a promise at the altar to God - for better or for worse and until you both leave this earth. This is definitely the worse, and from what I can determine you are both still kicking and breathing.

Dear brother in Christ, people do get beyond this. They do find their way again. However, suffering in silence is not the way to do it. If you have a church home, pastor, Christian friends you can trust with your life, etc. - then they need to know and share your struggles. God did not create us to live on an island - he created us to live in community.

You're absolutely right though... your wife has not shown remorse for her sin, but has chosen to blame you. She has not shown you any glimpse of being able to explicitly trust her again through her actions and secrecy.

Time to light the fire and trust God to walk you through it.

In the mean time, your job is to trust God and wait... do what needs to be done with counseling and with loving confrontation. See where things go when you no longer are willing to accept this betrayal. Things like this do not heal without outside help.

Praying for you and your marriage.

[dhawkmoon]

SAM, km and rdsmith3...

Thank you all for your responses. You've given me a lot to think about. To answer some of your questions...

Yes, I have a very close Chirstian friend (man) who I have confided in regarding this issue. We have lunch together about once a week and do talk about the matter some. That has helped as I respect his opinion and trust him that it never goes farther than our lunch table.

I do not attend church on a regular basis, but I have been attendng a mens Bible study more routinely. It's a very close knit group of men that are soldiers for God. We help each other out on multiple levels, but I have not brought this specific issue to the group and most likely will not. One lead member also knows my wife quite well. It just wouldn't be smart. My "church" is in the car each day to and from work. I have roughly an hour commute each way and typically listen to Christian radio - not music, but talk shows and sermons. I'm learning and praying daily as I drive.

I had not thought about going to couseling myself even if she won't go. I am now giving that very strong consideration. I know of a very good Christian counselor that comes highly recommended. There obvious financial considerations I need to take into account. I hope our new healthcare plan at work will cover some of the expenses.

As for what my wife thinks...here's the latest words from her mouth as of this morning - I'll paraphrase. I have been sleeping in another bedroom primarily due to a sinus and upper respiratory infection making me snore, toss and turn. It has taken three weeks to get back close to healthy. So last night (the second night of returning to our bed) she comes inthe room and sees me sitting on my side of the bed getting ready for the night. She says, "Oh, you're sleeping in here?" I say yes,I'm well enough now it shouldn't be a problem. She says, "Oh I've been sleeping so well - the best in years without all your tossing, turning, snoring, etc." So I tell her, would it be better ifI just stay in the other bedroom? If you're sleep is so important and obviously nothing else is going on in this bed (referring to no intimacy), then I'll just stay in there." Well she blows up and gets mad. I had sent her an article fromthis sight entitled, "Is That All He Thnks About?" thinking she should look at things from a Biblical perspective. She didn't. She threw the effort back in my face saying the article was disrespectful and a joke. I saw she forwarded it to her friend who has been absinent with her husband for almost two years. I'll bet they had a good laugh. At this point I'm getting upset as my effort totally backfired in my face. We end up screaming at each other and I go sleep upstairs for the night. This morning, she noticed I took off my ring and asked why. I know I shouldn't have, but I did. I told her when I felt like I was married and had a wife I would put it back on. After some more yelling the last thing she said to me as I walked out the door for work was, "Get a lawyer!" She has called me once today and sent me acouple text messages and is acting like none of that ever happened. I'm baffled.

I'm the eternal optimist always looking for the silver lining in any situation. But we've been together coming up on 25 years (married for 15). She was 17 when we met. I don't know if that has anything to do with anything but... Anyways, I am willing to do what I can so I can say at some point I have tried EVERYTHING. It takes two to reconcile, so I'll do what I can on my end and pray for things on her end. Thanks again all. Take care and God bless.

[SAM]

Dear friend -

You are in a battle of: If you cause me pain, I am going to cause it right back.
Taking off your wedding ring was not the answer or the correct response.

The following is even a better article than the one you gave your wife previously:

http://www.christianitytoday.com/mp/200 ... /8.30.html

As for church in your car that simply doesn't work, because it continues to create isolation.
Even God himself loved community so much that he chose to surround himself with Christ and The Holy Spirit.
When we live on an island, we are not living life the way God created it... in community.

There is an awesome book by John Ortberg called Everbody's Normal Til You Get to Know Them.
It speaks in depth about the desire God has given us to be in a loving community with fellow believers.

Every single couple my husband and I have mentored over the past 12 years, who finds themselves in deep weeds,
has done so because they have forgotten the importance of community.

If you are going to be real, honest, open... and truthful... with the other men in your group - your struggles as well as your strengths needs to be revealed and prayed for by these men.

[km]

After a previous round of battle (about a dozen years ago), I took off the wedding band for a while. I did it again for a while a couple years ago.
I think it was a bad move (although I can't say it really did anything specific one way or the other). I don't recommend it.

[rdsmith3]

I can't add much to the excellent advice you have already been given. I would suggest that now is not the best time to be giving articles to your wife. I have made this same mistake myself. Despite your best intentions, it can come across as if you are saying that you are holier than her. My wife calls it using the "God hammer." Your wife may know her sins, and may feel guilt about them, and any article you give her will not help the relationship. It is better to let the Holy Spirit convict her of her sins.

[dhawkmoon]

Thanks again all. I'm going to try some different things starting this weekend. Can't keep doing the same things and expect different results, right? I'll give you all an update in a bit. Take care and God bless. Pray for us please.