Growthtrac Community

[charity1]

RJ,
God's timing is amazing. Our D-day happened on the one year anniversary of my husband's mother's death. At least the two tragedies were confined to one day! I have always felt that God waited until he knew I could handle the revelation, and even then, I received information piece by piece. That tore me up for a while. I kept thinking, when will this ever end? How much more will I have to deal with? Every time I would deal with one piece of information, process it and forgive it, there would be another one. Now I know it was much easier for me to deal with that way. It would have been too devastating to have learned it all in one massive blow. By the time I got to the end of the revelations (or what I hope is the end), I didn't really care that much anymore. I couldn't help but think of the verses:

Mat 6:19 “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal,
Mat 6:20 “but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal.

This woman had come into my life and tried to steal everything I treasured on this earth, but she couldn't touch my home in heaven. This has changed my whole outlook on life. Thank goodness this life isn't all there is!! I have a home in store for me where God and Jesus are waiting for me, and there will be no tears and no pain or suffering. It's just awesome! I used to have a fear of flying, but not anymore, I'll get on a plane in a minute!

Your husband probably really needs to talk to someone. At least you have this forum. Does he have anybody? It wasn't until my husband talked to our preacher that he began to accept that God really could and had forgiven him. He was like your husband, he didn't see how I or God either one could ever forgive him. I think that still amazes him. I've got to admit, it amazes me too!! Just goes to show you, nothing is impossible with God!!

As far as any loss of rewards in heaven for sin, I don't really see that in the Bible, but I do feel like our husbands are suffering consequences here on earth. Look at your husband's nightmares, and like I said before, he probably does have the fear that his sinful life will be exposed. I doubt very seriously that the fear of losing his reputation has anything whatsoever to do with the way he treats you though. I agree with FHJ, I think he realizes what he has, knows he is blessed and appreciates you now.

Even though my husband's sin being exposed gave me some relief, I don't take any pleasure in everybody knowing. As a matter of fact, it hurts me to see how his brothers in Christ where we used to attend church, have pretty much abandoned him. I don't judge them, I don't know how I would have reacted to someone else in this situation, but it does hurt me to see the good man that he is now basically being shunned by people he was friends with for 20 or 30 years. He needs a friend now more than ever, but I do believe that is a consequence of sin. A consequence of your husband's sin is that he has to bear this burden all by himself. He can't bring himself to share this with anybody else, it's just too ugly.

[resecured]

charity,

What bothers me the most is that I am now having to wear a mask around everybody. I have to monitor my reactions, my feelings because my husband has unloaded his past, his guilt on me. It feels now that I share in his secret past. I've been made a part of his hush-hush horrible world. I've had the humilations, drs. office visits because of my STD, him flaunting his "sluts" in front of two guys that he shared an apartment with for 10 weeks, his drinking and dancing with women before a co-worker after work one day (just found out about that one, he remembered this just lately, he didn't drink that much but stopped when we had our daughter), his meeting up with a guy who was the bestman at our wedding and going to a bar and picking up a "slut" in front of him,(this guy would have nothing more to do with him after that), telling his "wh...." that I was a bad wife so that he would gain their sympathy and make it easier for him to cheat, on and one and on. He has not asked me to not tell anyone but has said he wonders what good it would do to tell and hurt family with his past that he is through with.

I have plateaued with all of this. I can't seem to move forward out of this pit. I know I have to have some showing that he has some accountablity here. I cannot be that for him. He says he is only accountable to God and me, and no one else. Sounds good but just seems like a cop out. He can continue to be Mister Wonderful in everybody's eyes. I have to squelch my feelings so no one guesses. How can that be right?

I'm thinking that maybe we should go to a Christian counselor so that he can lay bare everything, finally have the light finally shined on what he has done to someone besides me. I need him to really see it through someone elses eyes what he has done. Oh, he's aware but I just need it shared with someone else somehow. I just worry that the counselor will just tell me forgive, forget and move on now that he has repented. I need more than that. I need him to feel, know and truly understand everything and not just smooth it over with his "I'm sorrys" anymore.

We are going away this weekend. I really want to approach this before hand as not to ruin our time away. Any suggestions are definitely welcomed.

-RJ-

[ladyt]

The injunction was approved! Will know more on Friday afternoon. I prayed this morning and asked God for His will to be done. He knows the best solution and to what He'll allow.

I feel he has prepared me for this day and I feel this is either bring my H to repentance or it will continue to show how hardened his heart has become.

Only God knows the answer but I'm ok to whatever God decides. He controls all things, however He will not force our wills to serve Him.

My H has lost his status with some of his friends and I call that consequences to sin. If he loses his family, I would say that is a consequence to sin.

Sin will take us farther than we expected to go and will keep us longer than we ever expected to stay b/c sin is an inside job!

[charity1]

RJ,
I understand totally where you are coming from. I have been there. I strongly suggest a Christian counselor. I went to one for about 5 1/2 months. She didn't tell me just to forgive and move on. As a matter of fact, she fussed at me for trying to move on too quickly. She said I was expecting way too much from myself, that this was a very deep betrayal. I felt like I wasn't a very good Christian if I couldn't forgive immediately. She convinced me I was wrong. Toward the end of my counseling session I got stuck too. She asked me what it was I needed from my husband. What could he do? Maybe you need to ask yourself that question. Do you need him to confess it to his family and/or the church? It's not unreasonable if you are asking it because you don't want to feel like a hypocrite or you feel like he needs to be accountable to somebody other than you. Just beware that this won't take your hurt away, and make sure you aren't just wanting vengeance.

When I got stuck and wanted justice, the following verses hit me like a ton of bricks:

1Cr 13:4 Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud
1Cr 13:5 or rude. Love does not demand its own way. Love is not irritable, and it keeps no record of when it has been wronged.
Also we are told that vengeance belongs to God:

Rom 12:19 Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, "Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord."

Also, reading John 8 where Jesus tells the woman caught in adultery that since no one could stone her he doesn't condemn her either, so for her to go and sin no more. This was Jesus talking! How can I argue with that?? Life's unfair, but what can we do? Knowing how Jesus was betrayed and mistreated, how can I complain?

[resecured]

charity

That's just it. If I told family, friends, they would be hurt. Like me, they would have to go through a time of not knowing who this man is, that their belief in him would perish, the kids especially would have a very hard time with it. It would tear my kids world apart to know that their dad whom they love so much would be that type of horrible person. That he had treated me with such an unreal amount of disrespect, let alone had acted out in such a despicable immoral way. To fully know what he has done would be too harsh for them to understand. Therefore, he would lose their love and respect. They would turn from him because I have a very strong bond with my children. They would despise him for hurting me. My husband has repented, he has changed from that person of 26 years ago. He has asked for forgiveness from me and I have to forgive him. I'm instructed to, as hard as that is. I just wonder to what extent God wants me to deal with this knowledge of him.

I'm starting to really feel that going to a counselor would be enough for me. I'm not willing to hurt my family, even though my h deserves it. He does know though that if he ever does even the slightest whim of that former life, that the next step would be for them to know. There would have to be an intervention. But just to tell everyone now when he has asked for a second chance at being the husband he should have always been, I hesitate.

You're right, it would not take my hurt away. I think sometimes I would just love for him to feel how I feel for awhile. To understand what it is really taking for me to stay and fight for something that he cast aside so easily for years in such an immoral way. Honestly, I would love for him to hurt like I do everytime a trigger whams me. I know that is vengeance. I also know that belongs to God. It's His. If my husband has given it all over to God, who am I to get in Gods way. Vengeance of our own doing usually backfires with an even greater destructive force.

Believe it or not, I'm a calm, sweet gal. This is so against my nature to have these feelings of wanting to balance the scales of justice against him.

May I ask what you said back to the counselor when she asked what you needed from your husband, what could he do? I just wonder how others in similiar situations handle this suddeness to balance the scales. I am hanging onto Romans 12:19. I do find comfort with His words. I am waiting on the day when this too shall pass.

I will say that since talking this out with ya'll, I have become a bit calmer in spirit. I am so thankful. It's so hard when you feel so pent up inside with no sure fire way of releasing outwardly. Thanks for your wonderful support, love, and prayers.

-RJ-

[resecured]

ladyt,

What exactly happens with an injunction being approved? What will this mean for your husband?

I continue to pray for God's protection around you and your daughter. Be careful, he may try to use your daughter to get around things. Just be aware.

-RJ-

[charity1]

RJ,
I understand your needing to get all of this out. There is nothing wrong with saying exactly what is on your heart. Please go to a counselor. To be honest, I don't know that the counselor helped me nearly as much as just having a neutral third party hear me out and understand my pain and frustration. When the counselor asked me what he could do, what I needed from him, I was speechless. I realized there was really nothing he could do. The answer was really within me. He was doing all he could do. I finally decided I did need him to tell me he had sinned against me, and she told me to go home and tell him that, and I did. I guess, like you said, I just needed to know that he understood exactly what he had done. This wasn't just a "mistake" this was a sin. We feel like they can't possibly know how much they have hurt us, and I think that is true. Unless they live through it, they can't possibly know. It's just like losing someone you love to death, you don't know the pain until you experience it firsthand.

You know, I thought the same thing about my children that you have said. I thought they would lose love and respect for their dad, and since I have a very strong bond with my children as well, I thought they wouldn't be able to forgive him for a very long time, but none of that happened. Yes, they were disappointed in him and very, very shocked, but they forgave him almost immediately. I know they struggled with reconciling it all, just like I have, but they love him unconditionally, just like he does them. He is still their dad, no matter how bad he messes up. The fact that he messed up that badly but then made his life right with God has really made an impression on them. They always thought he was near perfect, that he couldn't possibly fall, but now they realize anybody can. My youngest son said that negative lessons are just as important as positive ones. He said his dad had shown them what they need to do when they sin. He hasn't just told them, he has shown them. I thought that was pretty awesome. There have been two father's days since D-day, and my husband has cried off and on all day each time. He knows how badly he let his children down and how bad of an example he has been. He doesn't feel worthy of being called their dad. All this has really humbled him.

[resecured]

Charity,

I woke up this morning and have decided to go find a counselor. Your are right, I just need to be able to outwardly voice all my feelings and thoughts to a third party. Just talking on here and getting wonderful feedback has really helped calm my radical racing thoughts. Coming so close to an emotional situation in front of my family really shocked me. This has all been basically handled in the privacy of our home. That was the first time I've had to deal with it outside. I can honestly say I was not prepared, but I am so proud of how I was able to stop it so quickly. Getting caught off guard was not pleasant by any means. Then that just set in motion, anger. Shock and anger mixed together, not a good combo. My h and I are going out of town tomorrow, so we will be discussing finding a counselor soon. He is all for it, always has been. I've just been hesitant because of some stories I have heard. I don't want them to compound the situation by pushing aside my thoughts and feelings of his past life. I have to somehow come to terms, (is that the word to use here) with it all. I pray that I can so I can move on. I'm plateaued right now. I won't move a smidge until I get what I need accomplished. What that is, I don't even know. I just know I am no longer able to just sweep under the proverbial rug, that I HAVE to deal, period. Please pray that I am able to locate a counselor that will help us.

About the kids or even his family, if I were to tell them the honest facts of all that he has done, I'm not sure how they would handle it all. The specifics are beyond horrible in so many ways. I still am having a hard time trying to equate the man I have been married to and thought I knew with the monster that he was for so long. You might think the term monster is harsh, but I guarantee you, it's not.

He, I pray has changed. True, it's been 26 years ago, but it happened, period. True, he's repented and God forgives everything, but I still have to get through it all. He says that sin will take you farther than you really want to go. That you lose yourself in sin. I told him though that you have to step through that door to begin with in the first place. Why do it if you know it's wrong to begin with? How can anyone just blantantly, knowing right from wrong, start that type of sin?

RJ

[charity1]

RJ,
I am so glad you have decided to see a counselor. Like I said, I don't know that my counselor, herself, was what really helped me. As a matter of fact, there were some things she said that I totally disagreed with, but just the venting and being understood helped me tremendously. It's funny, she got so upset over some of the details that she called my husband some names, and I found myself jumping to his defense. Maybe that was part of the strategy of getting me to see I did still care. I can talk about him, but I don't want anybody else to - just like with my children! I think counseling would help your husband a lot too. Most men tend to hold things inside. He needs to be able to talk. He knows how you feel about what he did, and even though the counselor may hate what he's done too, the counselor won't have a personal interest in it. He can open up to them without any lasting consequences. Having to reveal everything to a stranger will be very hard for him. No doubt he will experience an awful lot of shame and embarrassment.

Romans 7 and 8 talks about our sinful nature. I don't really understand how our guys let themselves become entangled except to say they got too close to the line and before they knew it, they had crossed it. Once the line is crossed, it becomes easier and easier to sin. Addictions aren't pretty. The good news is, I don't believe God asks us to do anything we can't do without His help. If he tells us to forgive, if we ask him to help us, we can do it. One thing I came up with on my own to be able to get past this was to imagine my husband dying tomorrow and asking myself how I would feel about how I had treated him and felt about him in his last days. Is it worth it to hang on to my negative thoughts and feelings? After losing several close family members, I know someone can be taken away in an instant. I don't want any regrets if my husband happens to go before me. I also thought about if Jesus was to come back tomorrow, and I am still harboring anger and resentment, how will I measure up in judgment. Those are some pretty sobering thoughts. Just thought I would throw those out there to ponder. I believe letting go is about attitude and determination. I can choose to be upset or I can choose to let go. It's not easy, but as I say over and over, nothing is impossible with God. I'm living proof. I'm still amazed I want my husband near me! That's not from me, that's from God!

I'll be praying for you two this weekend.

[ladyt]

Well the injunction got him removed from our home. I had it served on Sat as I did not want to have it done on Sunday nor on Monday at his job.

He moved in with his brother. He cannot come within 500 feet of me or 100 feet of my car. I have temporary custody of our child and the house. We have a hearing July 9th. At that time the judge will hear us both and decide if the injunction is permanent or expires on July 8th.

He can come near my daughter as I did not add her to the injunction but he can only go see her at her job for now. If he needs anything, he will have to arrange with law enforcement and myself and be escorted to our home and watched departing.

He was still rude while the police was here and says he doesn't know if he will put money in the bank on Monday. I pray that God touch his heart and allow him to support us. The hearing will decide custody and support *. Remember where we live there is no such thing as legal separation. This is a way that God made to do the same as a legal separation. Praise God.

I love my husband and I would jump a the chance to save our marriage. He does not feel the same way and I cannot make him nor will I run after him. That's God's area of expertise. If his heart is so hard that he refuses to treat me with honor and as the weaker vessel, I see him headed for destruction. He is not remorseful about the violence nor the behaviors that was displayed in front of our daughter. He did apologize to her for witnessing his violence against me, however he has not said anything to me. He stopped talking to me early April and its about to be July.

I am praying for his salvation. I am not bitter. God has been preparing me for this day for some time now.

[DeerSeason]

Ah yes, the restraining order. It is the favored tool to gain tactical advantage in a divorce, and to deprive a man of his home, possessions, family. It's about gaining control,a nd it's a low-cost way to inflict misery and exact vengeance. Many judges view such orders as a tool to empower a woman to gain control and kick a man out of the house. Did the legislatures intend that?

But don't anyone fool themselves into thinking it actually protects you; contrariwise, it is much more likely to inflame and infuriate your S/O. Not useful (except as a tool of vengeance and venality).

But I ought not project my experiences onto ladyt; sorry.

[j3anjean]

Hey, DeerSeason. While the tone of your post is a bit confrontational I will say that I saw something similar on TV yesterday. Gavin de Becker, author of the Gift of Fear, and American security specialist, said that injunction or restraining order is a "declaration of war" and is a tool for police and judicial systems and not necessarily for individuals who wish to avoid violence or conflict. Apparently the time directly after the injunction is filed is the most dangerous for the person who filed the restraining order.
I have never been in a situation where I had to or felt the need for an order of protection. I imagine it is a scary process in an incredibly difficult and painful situation. Ladyt must have felt in danger and the judge must have agreed for this injunction to be put in place. I doubt that it was just an issue of control or an effort to take what belonged to her husband.

[DeerSeason]

Well, it may seem that way; I'll work on that.

I'll stand by what I wrote: very often, a restraining order - or 'Domestic Violence Protective Order' - has nothing to do with protecting, and everything to do with gaining control, an upper hand, and prejudicing future proceedings against the husband (almost always the husband). Here's a thought: is someone bent on hurting someone else, going to be stopped by a restraining order? Of course not, silly. But a restraining order is a dandy, low-cost, low-risk means of inflicting misery and gaining advantage when bailing from a marriage.


Scary? What is scary, is to come home from out of state where you've been working to support your family...coming home at invite of wife... to be met by police who kick you out of your house you've paid for, confiscate your firearms from you, and... suddenly finding the power of the state arrayed against you. And your soon-to-be-ex - who has refused efforts to participate in counseling and reconciliation - now struts about in her shiny new martry's shawl (how's that for confrontational?)

Ladyt may well have felt she was in danger.

About family court judges: they're elected, and none want 'responsibility' for a homicide, so they almost always grant restraining orders, regardless of the merits. Family Courts are locus of evil, and the playground of feminist ideologues and lawyers and the state, all of whom have a vested interest in conflict as opposed to reconciliation.

I've learned far more than I ever wanted to know over the past 10 months. I hate divorce, and feel about the same towards lawyers, the state, and courts.

[rdsmith3]

deerseason

I can infer that you have been through some difficult situations, perhaps subject to a restraining order yourself?

Welcome here. Why don't you tell us more about your situation?

It is always dangerous to generalize. I had to get a restraining order against my first wife. I believe it was warranted because she was endangering the children. She was verbally abusive to them; she was most often intoxicated while caring for the children, and would sometimes pass out, even with the gas stove going; she would drive under the influence with them in the car. One day, she struck one of the kids. I called the police and got a restraining order. She was ultimately convicted of a crime.

So in my case, it truly was necessary to protect the children. I am at fault for letting it even get to that point, and God will judge me for that.

Also, FYI, in my state the family court judges are appointed, not elected. In my case a fairly liberal female judge awarded me full-time custody of the children, which is unusual.

If you were unjustly targeted, I am sorry to hear that. However, I do not think you can extrapolate and say that all restraining orders are meant to be a control tactic and not meant for protection.

[j3anjean]

Thank you rdsmith for sharing your experience. How awful for you and your children!

I know that in my past I rained down havoc on my children and my husband with my addictions. It wasn't to the point that your situation was but it was spiraling quickly out of control. I can only imagine my dear husband felt scared and angry but at the same time, he hoped I would pull it all together. When I didn't- he did take the children away from me for a while.

I understand the the injunction or restraining order is a tool. When used as it was intended it is meant to provide a measure of protection for the people involved. Any tool can be misused. It is a broad and unfair judgement to say that they are only used as a means of gaining control and abusing the power of the law.