Growthtrac Community

[charity1]

km,

From what I have seen (I've been around a number of broken marriages and men having affairs - but no personal experience with it myself), the guys who don't know how it happened are the ones that one has a real chance of reconciling with.

That's good to know, thanks. The only thing is it's a little scary because if they don't really know why it happened in the first place, how can we be so sure it won't ever happen again? I know there are no guarantees in this world, so I don't really stress about it, but it is always in the back of my mind.

They usually fell into it because things were not right at home (and they probably couldn't have given a real good explanation of how they were wrong) and they ended up in a situation where someone else appeared to offer the respect/attention/affirmation/affection that they weren't getting out of the marriage (and they shared responsibility for that situation to a greater or lesser degree).

Kind of ironic, huh? They are looking for respect and admiration, but once the affair is revealed they lose that from not only their spouse but most of the people around them. It's pretty sad. It would be so much easier to communicate in the first place than to ruin your life and then start trying to learn to communicate. My husband is getting better at communicating but still has a long way to go. He has never been one to tell me what he is thinking or feeling.

[km]

Getting to the bottom of the problems - not just papering over the surface issues - is why counseling is such a must.

A lot of men would say that things had gotten cold, they weren't connected, the sex had stopped, they weren't appreciated/respected - and they were so flattered when someone else seemed to offer that connection (and then the sex too)...

It takes real work to get down to the bottom of why those problems arose. They are usually long term slide issues.

[rdsmith3]

It's pretty sad. It would be so much easier to communicate in the first place than to ruin your life and then start trying to learn to communicate. My husband is getting better at communicating but still has a long way to go. He has never been one to tell me what he is thinking or feeling.

It is a stereotype, but very true IMO -- men are not taught to express feelings. At least in my generation (I am 48) we learned that real men kept it to themselves and went out and worked to support the family -- that is how they expressed love. I can never remember my father even using the word feeling. I don't recall him every saying he was happy, sad, angry, or even hot or cold. I am not saying this is a healthy state of affairs, but it is the way it was. I have learned from my wife and from counseling to communicate better and to express feelings. One of the things that I am very grateful to my wife for is that she encouraged me to tell my father that I loved him when he was dying of cancer. He had never told me that in my life, and I had never told him. So I went to see him in the hospital, and I told him. He did not respond, "I love you," but I did not expect him to, and I know that he did love me.

The flip side of this is that there is a danger to relying too much on feelings. Our feelings can easily lead us astray. Remember Jeremiah 17:9

The heart is deceitful above all things,
and desperately sick;
who can understand it?

[charity1]

rdsmith3,

It is a stereotype, but very true IMO -- men are not taught to express feelings. At least in my generation (I am 48) we learned that real men kept it to themselves and went out and worked to support the family -- that is how they expressed love.

You are right, but it sure makes it hard on a woman to know whether or not a man is truly happy or not. My husband and I did everything together. I thought we were best friends. It blew his family away when his affair came out. If our marriage was in trouble, their's didn't have a chance! I'm not the perfect wife by any means, but I have tried so hard to be agreeable, not a nag. I have tried to be in submission, letting him lead the family and letting him be the final decision maker. I tried to make sure we weren't strangers when our children grew up because I had seen that happen over and over with other people. I have always tried to put him before myself, so I hate it when people say a man wasn't happy at home or he wouldn't have had an affair. I know men that obviously aren't happy at home, but I don't know that they've had affairs. KM rated his marriage a 6 and says he hasn't had an affair. It is just so frustrating!! If my husband says he doesn't know why he had the affair, how was I supposed to know and prevent it??

[rdsmith3]

It is just so frustrating!! If my husband says he doesn't know why he had the affair, how was I supposed to know and prevent it??

I can only imagine how frustrating it must be, and how you really want answers to this. Of course, you know it is not up to you to prevent it. It is healthy to examine your role in the marriage, but I hope you are not blaming yourself. Your husband is responsible for his choices.

[km]

charity1 - The communication issue is crucial. I haven't had a moral failure, but with our communication and sexual problems, I fear the vulnerabilty is there for one to occur. If those problems were addressed, I'd be saying I had one of those 'as good as it gets marriages' instread of experiencing the unhappiness and fear.

[Joblom1]

Hi- Friends in Christ Thanks again for your imput. My hus had also turned 49-50. The ow was a girlfriend from many years ago, whom he had planned on marrying, but were of different religions. They were together for one night, shr was dating someone else, she came back and said she was pregnant, said it was hus's. He did not beleive her, she married other guy. My hus said he thought about her thru the years and wondered if the child was his. I do not really know when it started, she lives in a different state. He told me he made the 1st call with the intent of asking ow if the child was his . He traveled often to state where she lived for business. That is at least what he has told me. But in the letters I found, there was also pictures of her and her son. He could not explain really why he had the pictures, there are just to many unexplained things. I feel he saw her when she lived here in our state. The pictures were of the boy graduating from h.s. What woman would give an old picture of her self? Before I can move forward, I need more answers. In one of the letters to ow woman, he wrote that He had loved her since she was 15. And he was moving towards a divorce. When I confronted him with the letters. He said he would never have asked for a divorce. I feel since he has not given me answeres to my ?? things are unsettled. And I do pray and ask God to take this burden from me. He just tells me he can't remember alot, because it was so long ago. I have also prayed fro God to give him the answers. Maybe that is not what to pray for. So I have good moments and not so good, when everything you thought you had you did not-Jo-jo

[charity1]

rdsmith3,
I thought I had gotten past the blaming myself stage, but when I hear someone talking about the reason a man has an affair is because his needs aren't met, or he isn't happy at home, it sure feels like the blame is on me. The insecurity after an affair is unbelievable.
km,

I haven't had a moral failure, but with our communication and sexual problems, I fear the vulnerabilty is there for one to occur

I'm not sure how you would go about addressing this with your wife, but if you are that vulnerable, she needs to know it. I know I would have been very hurt if my husband had told me if things didn't change he was afraid he might be vulnerable to an affair, but I really believe I would have sat up and taken notice once I calmed down. Although I would have been crushed to think he would even think an affair was possible, it wouldn't have been nearly as devastating as what I have just lived through, and I'm sure my husband would agree. What's the worst that could happen? You've been together a long time. She obviously loves you. That's what I have tried to tell my husband. If things aren't great anyway, what is talking honestly going to hurt? You can't tell her in an accusing or blaming way, and you can't put all the blame on her, but you could just tell her from the standpoint of what you are feeling and why you feel that way. I know, like rdsmith3 has said, that goes against the way most men are made, but in this case, you have so much to gain from it. I'm sure your wife would much rather you tell her how you are feeling now than to show her later, and the healing would be much easier. Some people never heal from infidelity. I would think a counselor could help you with how to address it.

It could be that you could use one of your friends that has fallen as an example to open up the conversation or just as a third person example of how certain problems can make a person vulnerable to an affair. If you could somehow plant the idea of your specific problems possibly causing infidelity, it might make her think. In any event, a major life crisis shouldn't have to happen in order for you to talk to your wife, and believe me, if you fall, you will end up having to talk to her, and it won't be pretty.

[km]

I've suggested various forms of counseling a handful of times through the years - she is not willing to sntertain the idea. While I am relatively creative, I really am without any idea of how to get her to go for it.

[charity1]

km,
You had mentioned before she wouldn't go, but you still can. Maybe a counselor could help you figure out a way to communicate with her.

[charity1]

Joblom1,
So do you have any idea how long ago the letters and pictures were? Will your husband not answer any of your questions? Have you told him you can't move on until he opens up to you?

[rdsmith3]

charity1

You make some good suggestions, but it's difficult for me to see that working in my marriage, the way it is right now. Like km, I am also vulnerable. My wife and I rarely have sex or physical contact of any kind. In a lot of ways, a kiss is more intimate than sex, and we have not kissed in years. She cringes when I even hug her. She says that she feels dead towards me and in anger says she does not feel any love towards me. She further says that she would never do what she is "supposed" to do, and have sex with me, because she would feel violated if she did. (But she will initiate it a few times a year.)

I have recently asked her several times about going to counseling together, and she refuses. They were promoting at our church a "Weekend to Remember" event that will be in our area in September, and I asked her about that, and she does not want to go. I tried to talk to her the other day about a man's need for physical intimacy, and she did not want to hear about it. She basically says that I have hurt her, and so she does not have any feelings of wanting to be close to me. Her attitude seems to be, "Too bad, you ruined it by hurting me." She says she prays to God for the ability to forgive, but her prayers have not been answered, and she cannot forgive.

I love my wife, and she has many great qualities, but she carries around a lot of anger and unforgiveness, and she very often sees herself as a victim. This is gradually changing with the help of her counselor, but her thought patterns have taken 40 years to develop and so will take some time to change. I trust that God will heal our marriage, and I pray for patience.

In the mean time, though, I am very vulnerable. Please understand that I know I am 100% accountable for my actions, and I am not in any way saying that, well, since my wife is not meeting MY needs, then it is OK to do something that violates the marriage vows.

What I have tried to do is to talk to other guys. I am in a small men's group (four of us) and we meet regularly and go through a structured Bible study program, and also spend time talking. This hopefully puts an accountability mechanism in place for me. I also talk with my brother-in-law, who has become a friend. My wife knows the * to my computer at home, and there is no door on my office (the kids use this room, too). This is another way that I have to be accountable. I pray from Psalm 51 that God will give me a pure heart.

Sorry for the rambling post. To summarize, the four things I am trying to do to avoid sexual sin are:

- fellowship
- accountability
- praying
- spending time in God's word

It is a struggle, though.

[km]

charity1 - I think more IC would just increase my frustration (she seems to be one of those outlier personalities - everything all the books suggest backfire).

Money still being very tight (we had a financial crash several years ago, and we will not get back to our former place, so we have to watch the money carefully), and the inefficiency of doing individual counseling to address the joint problem would undermine its effectiveness further for me.

[charity1]

km,
I went to counseling by myself and found it to be very helpful. The counselor has to be a Christian though. The more I improved myself, the more mine and my husband's relationship improved. I didn't see how going by myself could possibly help my marriage, I was really just going so that I could vent, but the more the counselor and I talked, the more confidence I gained. I also found that talking about a problem verbally can sometimes make you figure out your own solutions. When I stopped stressing about our problems and just tried to find peace in my own life, things got much better. I have always tended to be a little sensitive. Now I try to give my husband the benefit of the doubt. More than likely what he says or does that hurts me wasn't intended to hurt me. I just took it wrong and vice versa. That's where communication is so vital. I try not to walk away upset anymore, I try to just flat out ask him what he means by what he says that hurts me, and he is learning to do the same with me. I know there are times he thinks I treat him like a two year old, but I don't mean to. Wives are usually mothers too, and our "helpfulness" can come out bossy. My husband and I both have trouble saying things in the right way sometimes. I think that will probably be a problem until the day we die because we don't always think things through before saying them. We are just trying our best to work out any misunderstandings as they come up now and not let them build up resentment. Keeping things inside definitely can make resentment build. My insurance covered my counseling except for a copay, so it wasn't very expensive at all. It was well worth my time and effort.

rdsmith3,
I am very sorry your wife is being so resistent to forgiveness. In the long run she is hurting herself even more than she is you.

[rdsmith3]

rdsmith3,
I am very sorry your wife is being so resistent to forgiveness. In the long run she is hurting herself even more than she is you.

Thanks. Unfortunately, she is also hurting the children. I have even appealed to her using that logic -- the best thing you can do for the kids is to work on the marriage. She is an extremely stubborn and resistant person.