Growthtrac Community

[charity1]

kelly1,
Yes, this is a tough crowd. We have all been through the fire and know it is nothing to play with.

Just how is it fair to drag my family out of the church we have loved, and around which we have built our spiritual lives (including my home-schooled son, whose friends are all from church), because I let a foolish impulse overtake me for a short time, and which I now fully understand I must entirely relinquish?

The answer to that is: it would not be fair, but when it comes to adultery, fairness isn't involved. Before adultery became a part of my life, I would have just strongly advised you to have no further contact with the young woman and keep your distance, but in your original posts, you made it clear that if you were to make small talk with her, you feared your fantasies would become even worse. As others have pointed out, you just don't play with fire and think you aren't going to get burned. I greatly resented having to leave our church, but looking back it would have been so much more "fair" to me, my husband, our children and the family if we had left the church when my husband first felt attracted to the other woman instead of waiting until things got out of control and our marriage and family were nearly destroyed. I knew my husband and the other woman were attracted to each other, but because we had been at that church for so long and our family was there, I decided to stick it out, after all, my husband was a strong Christian. He could handle this! I just warned him about spending any one-on-one time with her, and then trusted him. Boy, was I wrong! There is no way I can make you understand the devastation of an affair. Once it happens, there is no going back. Fortunately the other woman in your case doesn't seem to be encouraging a connection, so that is a huge difference in our situations. Since you and your wife have talked and believe you can continue to attend church where this young woman attends, please keep your guard up at all times. The devil knows where your weaknesses are, and he is very persistent. He will more than likely arrange unavoidable contact. "Put on the whole armor of God." You aren't wrestling with flesh and blood here, the devil wants your soul.

I am happy that your wife is so understanding and forgiving, but don't underestimate how much all of this has hurt her. She will always have the knowledge that her husband had an emotional affair and that he told the other woman he loved her. That is a huge betrayal. Please don't overlook that fact. You are married to a special lady.

[montanna]

I guess we can be a tough crowd sometimes, as many of us on here have been in your wife shoes and way worse. So if we can helpor offer advise to stop something then we will... Besides you asked...

I guess I am still very confused as to why there would even still be emails?? Do you work toegther.

Here is the deal. People leave thier $100,000 jobs everyday because they screwed up and had an affair. It puts the whole family in turoil but ti has to be done. In order for the hurt spouse to trust, I do not really see the sifference here. If your wife does not expect you to leave then you are one lucky man and she is an amazing woman!

[jmwc95]

Boy, you are a tough crowd. Just how is it fair to drag my family out of the church we have loved, and around which we have built our spiritual lives (including my home-schooled son, whose friends are all from church), because I let a foolish impulse overtake me for a short time, and which I now fully understand I must entirely relinquish?

It's not fair. That is why you shouldn't have done it. If you didn't want to face those consequences, then you shouldn't have entertained those thought and engaged her in a relationship. The cat's already out of the bag; it's too late to go back.

I believe I will simply have to bear the burden of my own foolishness when I see this young lady and any thoughts re-enter my mind, but the communication would be so limited and entirely unplanned (or more precisely, would happen only in spite of strong efforts to avoid it) - right now I'm leaning towards total lack of acknowledgment - that there will be no possibility of re-igniting anything.

I've been around the block a few times, and plenty of betrayed spouses have heard that before, only to see contact reignite those feelings and put you back in the same place you were before.

Yes, my wife hurts, but that hurt will fade, and even now, is not comparable to the hurt she would feel from being forced to leave this church.

It should be something you should discuss with her, and she should decide. You once again are exhibiting independent behavior, deciding what YOU think is best for your wife. How do you know that she doesn't feel anxious every time you two are in the same building together? This is why you need to including her in your counseling.

If any communication happened, it would be by e-mail, and changing churches would hardly eliminate that possibility.

But it would eliminate chance contact, and every day you go without seeing her, is another day that your addiction to her fades away. If you are open and transparent with your wife, she would have your email and be able to check up on you if she wished.

But I vow each day afresh not to do that.

Sure, until the day you are weak and speak to her again. Listen, you were an "I love you too" away from committing adultery with this woman. You shouldn't be near her at all. If she told you she loved you tomorrow and wanted to sleep with you, you would do it. Know your own weaknesses.

One thing I have not said in my posts is that this young lady, for all her flaws, has extraordinary spiritual maturity, and has likely stopped communicating for the very reason that she has concluded it will damage my marriage, for which she has expressed - and demonstrated - great respect.

You continue to glorify this other woman and disrespect your wife. This woman has VERY POOR BOUNDARIES, and interfered with your marriage. I'm sure your wife wouldn't have glowing praise for this woman, and it's her opinion that counts. You continue to hold this woman up on a pedestal, to where she clearly does not belong. She had an emotional affair as well. She liked the attention and admiration you gave her. Lucky for you, she probably didn't find you attractive because you are a lot older than her, and your profession of love shocked her into finally doing the right thing. Once she thought you had given up the thought of being with her again, she quickly reengaged in the relationship again for the attention and admiration.

This is ALL my fault, and yes, if she was a pagan or even a Christian prone to carnal delights, and given that I am tall, dark, handsome and successful (not boasting, but this is how I am perceived) and much older than her, she would have taken my overture and run with it.

It takes two to tango. You are clearly focused on your relationship with this woman and not about your relationship with your wife, and it will continue as long as you are in contact with her.

But she has always been clear about boundaries. It was only after she - and I - were convinced that I was not actually "in love" with her that she opened her mind to having a re-defined relationship, even if that was ill-advised on my part.

The only boundary she has had is no sex, and it's clear that she has that boundary because she could still get what she wanted without having to do it with you.

[neeny21252]

Ok - thank you so much for breaking it down that way!!! I will admit my last post was and is fluff! As you know I am little beat up right now & stop absorbing what was being said except tough crowd SO look.... My husband was NO longer sleeping with his last affair had not even seen her only phone!!!! If you wonder what it did to me LOOK At my post!! May I ask who the heck are you listening too??? Yes your wife is loving could she still be in shock & doing what many of us have done "at least he came to me...."
Have YOU talked to the shepard of your church???
Yeah like I would let my husband see OW
If you are feeling defensive about what the tough crowd is saying is it possible because it rings some truth in your spirit??

[neeny21252]

I feel the need to add this. I shared all these with H & we talked about why I shut down that one post. When you spouse has affair. You take on many untruths for me I wimped out when you said tough crowd after my post & went into fix it mode - for that I am thankful for H & I were able to talk about it.
In your battle - well atleast that is how I see it I will share what finally brought H to his knees; yes he betrayed me BUT he betrayed our Lord first. While on your computer it is Jesus that sits with you. When H realized this is when I saw a truly repented & broken man that would do anything to submit to his father & Lord!!!!!!!!!!!!! This has included MANY things that have hurt the family & his pride! He no longer saw a tall dark & handsome man in the mirror (I think those were like your words?) But a HUMBLE man laying at the foot of the throne of his king.
Please I truly do pray the same for you!!!! God wants your marriage & the prize he has given you SATAN wants you to keep believing your lies

[rdsmith3]

I will share what finally brought H to his knees; yes he betrayed me BUT he betrayed our Lord first.

Yes, I think that is the key. You have to love the Lord more than you love your sin, or the other woman, or your reputation. That is why I said previously that God's reputation is what matters here, not ours.

[SAM]

There are many people here on the boards who have walked a mile in your shoes and know the ramifications of their actions. There are quite a few women and men who have been betrayed by their spouses. So, the advice you will get is pretty raw... honest... and does not beat around the perverbial Christian bush.

Have you and your wife had a discussion about leaving the church? If she asked, would you be willing to do it?

[j3anjean]

jmwc95, I have to give you some credit here. You are not coddling or delivering this message gently but you are brutally honest. I respect what you posted.

kelly1. This is a very tough crowd because we have all had individual experience that have refined us. We see deceit in ourselves and others far more quickly because of trials our own marriages have gone through. I admire the fact that you recognize this is a problem. I admire that you confessed this to your wife. However at that point, the warm fuzzies end. You will not find justification for continued self deceit and rationalizations on this board. I am sure their are hundreds of boards out there that will offer that. This one however, is prayed over. I believe that the people here care for and pray for one another. In doing so, we are bluntly honest.

I saw in your post a lack of humility. Not only for your appearance and worldly success but also in your relying on your own strength, 2 Timothy 2:22
Flee the evil desires of youth, and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, along with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

You are not stronger than sin. You are not stronger than Satan. That is why we need God. Even Christ himself, did not face the devil's temptations alone. Look at Matthew 4. Your words show that you think confession is making you above temptation. You think you can just banish away those thoughts. To those who know the reality -that is absolutely laughible.

Your wife is an amazing woman-to have quickly forgiven you -to continue to be submissive to the paths you are choosing. You need to honor that by making the right choices-the hard choices when necessary.

The path you are on only goes one direction. You are not forging a new one-you are going down a very old road and we, on this board, all know the outcome. I'll continue to pray for you and your wife.

[kelly1]

Let me add a few things to the mix here. First, this young lady DID take this issue up with an elder in the church after I blurted out to her, and I was rebuked, so there is accountability on three levels: wife, young lady and elder, who has said this will go no further as long as I don't continue this inappropriate behavior. And my wife knows that this has been reported to the elder. And I voluntary did a follow-up meeting with the elder ( a decision my wife supported), and told him that I had discussed all of this with my wife. I did want that accountability. But I have continued to prepare for any other fallout, and would even be prepared to leave the church IF my wife so desired. What I've said is that it would wound her deeply if I made the decision to do so, thereby penalizing my family for my own foolish behavior. The decision will rest on my wife's ability to deal with the reality that this young lady continues to be in the church.

Second, my own description of myself (tall, dark etc.) is a third-party viewpoint. I hardly think very highly of myself - in fact that is a large part of this problem, I think, that I somehow needed the validation that comes from this type of engagement. I have been on my knees before God weeping and begging for forgiveness, redemption and release from this affliction. To jmwc95, who said she wanted to vomit at my explanation, let me say you have no idea how much I have beaten myself up over this - almost to the point of just wanting to end it all. I have very low self-esteem right now, because my spirit has so strongly testified to my sinfulness and weakness. You seem to have very little compassion, understandable perhaps because you have obviously been burned in the past. But exactly why do you think I would engage in this exercise on this forum if I just wanted to secretly continue this daliance? My wife is ANYTHING but naive, and has lifted me up by saying she believes in me, and takes at face value that I am serious about removing this stain. And after some ill-advised attempts to simply reduce, rather than end, the relationship, I am now clear about what I have to do.

So, you might say, well great, but how can you avoid the temptation to re-engage with this young lady? Well, first it seems clear she has withdrawn completely, following my pulling back to the point of only occasional polite e-mails, the last of which was never replied to. So now the break is complete, and even if she does e-mail me, I have vowed not to reply, and I am seeing the opportunity in this, for there is nowhere left to go. She will not engage, my wife has been clear about this also, and the elder who knows about this is undoubtedly checking back with the young lady from time to time. So I have in effect built a wall around myself, and worry only that my thoughts will wander when I see the young lady. But I'm a big boy, and a Godly man, and have to believe I can, with God's mercy and help, just walk on by and keep my thoughts on things above.

Remarkably, I have on several occasions been put in a position to unavoidably pass right by the young lady at the most inopportune times, like last Sunday when I had prepared to simply walk by if I saw her and make no eye contact. And I was immediately put in that position, even though it is a large church with many entrances and different activity areas. I even told my wife about it, and lamented having to, in effect, shun her since I don't want to anger her or punish her for my own sinfulness. I know that the Lord tests but never tempts his people, but it was hard to accept that this was not a temptation. I choose to look on this as a test of my resolve. My wife felt good at how I handled it, though even she says I should not be hostile, but simply not care. I'm working on that, and have so much in my life to be thankful for, not the least of which is her. I know that I not only have no excuse (my wife is cold, she's not giving me what I need, etc.), but I don;t even have any REASON for this episode.

I do realize that I have spent WAY WAY too much time thinking about this essentially meaningless young lady and myself and my "loss" rather than my wife. Again, it is not as if I have nothing to turn to in my own life - I have been remarkably blessed. Now that I am fully committed to total non-engagement (though I need to commit afresh each day, much like an alcoholic) It is my daily prayer that my marriage will not only return to its former blissful state, but actually be strengthened by this trial. After all, we are envouraged to come boldly to the throne of grace.

[charity1]

kelly1,
It is not the intention of any of us on this forum to beat you up. We all are telling you what we are telling you because we care about you and want to help you.

I know that the Lord tests but never tempts his people, but it was hard to accept that this was not a temptation.

No, the Lord doesn't tempt, but Satan does, so yes, it was a temptation, and I had mentioned that in my previous post. Satan will keep putting her in your path.

Now that I am fully committed to total non-engagement (though I need to commit afresh each day, much like an alcoholic

Alcoholics know their weakness and they stay away from it. They don't hang out at bars. Your weakness is going to be in your face repeatedly. Nothing against your wife at all, but yes, she is naive. She is just like I was. She believes you are so strong in your faith that you could never actually fall.

But I'm a big boy, and a Godly man, and have to believe I can, with God's mercy and help, just walk on by and keep my thoughts on things above.
I choose to look on this as a test of my resolve.

I'm not saying you can't possibly resist this woman, you can if you have the Spirit of God leading you at all times, but man's resolve is never enough. My husband thought he could just enjoy the attention and admiration of the other woman, and then pull away, but that didn't happen. What I see in your situation is a man in a mid-life crisis just like my husband was. Hopefully the other woman in your case won't be willing to go all the way down the road of destruction with you, but like jmwc95 put it, I am afraid that if she told you tomorrow that she would sleep with you, you would do it. Therein lies the problem. I still suggest you leave that church for a period of time, not forever, but until the thoughts of the other woman are completely gone, but obviously this is your call. You might want to share these posts with your wife and let her make an informed decision. This is too big of a deal to just gloss over.

[kelly1]

jmwc95, You think you can just banish away those thoughts. To those who know the reality -that is absolutely laughible.

The path you are on only goes one direction. You are not forging a new one-you are going down a very old road and we, on this board, all know the outcome.

jmwc95, are you saying that, given all you know about this from my three long posts, including the fact that there is no longer any engagement with this young lady, that you think it is IMPOSSIBLE for me to resist the grip of Satan and stay in this church? I'm wondering - might it not be the ultimate victory for Satan to succeed in getting me out of this wonderful church, where my family and I have built our faith from ground zero and taken on significant positions of leadership? I ask seriously, not trying to lead you to any particular answer.

[SAM]

It's hard sometimes through the boards to see through all the details, and some get left out too.
All most of us can do is pray for guidance, and ask God to help us see what is behind the words.

So glad to hear you have the accountability of an elder.
What strikes me is, even with this accountability, there was still a desire to continue contact. Almost like a drug, you still wanted to get more.

I hardly think very highly of myself - in fact that is a large part of this problem, I think, that I somehow needed the validation that comes from this type of engagement.

This is a great concept to bring before your counselor. I'm still praying, that you engage in counseling for yourself... and with your wife. Do you believe yourself to be loved and handsome through the eyes of God, and your wife?

Dear brother, even those who are great in our eyes, fall. Look at David... the one who was favored by God. We believe that we cannot be penetrated by The Enemy. The most misleading thing we can believe about ourselves is, "It will never be me."

[j3anjean]

jmwc95, You think you can just banish away those thoughts. To those who know the reality -that is absolutely laughible.

The path you are on only goes one direction. You are not forging a new one-you are going down a very old road and we, on this board, all know the outcome.

jmwc95, are you saying that, given all you know about this from my three long posts, including the fact that there is no longer any engagement with this young lady, that you think it is IMPOSSIBLE for me to resist the grip of Satan and stay in this church? I'm wondering - might it not be the ultimate victory for Satan to succeed in getting me out of this wonderful church, where my family and I have built our faith from ground zero and taken on significant positions of leadership? I ask seriously, not trying to lead you to any particular answer

I think part of that was mine.
kelly1-it isn't so much the church issue that was not sitting well with me. The parts that hit me were the continued emails (which you later clarified) and a continued contact-in meetings or hallways. You repeatedly glorified this woman and seeing that you still mentally and emotionally keep her on a pedestal is where I see your weakness ---there and thinking you can rely on your own resolve.

Knowing a weakness does not make it easily avoided.Have you ever seen folks that are rubbernecking an accident and slide off the road? Our hearts & our actions tend to follow where our eyes are looking. I think the over all consensus of this board is to remove yourself from temptation rather than resolve not to give in to it. Satan knows your weaknesses and he is grinning at the thought of being able to use yours against you. Yes, I think that God is bigger than that. Your downfall will be if you think you are.

I don't know you, your wife or your family. I only know my own experiences. Does your church offer different services (an early and a late)? Would that switch remove you from direct exposure? Please, for you and your family's sake-put up good fences. My husband has had several affairs. We started attending a church where one of his former conquests attended when we lived in FL. It had forgiven him and her but it was so hard to see her each week-to see if his eyes would travel her way. I spend some Sundays just wondering where we would 'bump' into eachother. She was cold and abrasive to me. She was remarried and still friendly with my husband. More than once I walked out of the santuary and find her and her spouse talking to my husband. Laughing and joking. When I walked up, her eyes would blaze and she would storm off. She had been my best friend growing up. I didn't leave that church because I felt God called me to be there-but each time I saw her was a new twist to an old injury. Please, please please talk to your wife. Consider her feelings in this. Pray to God for guidance.

[montanna]

Kelly1 -

just my 2 cents... your wife my not want to move churches now.... could it be possible that she is in shock state still. The feeling of complete anger and dispair for some may hit later on, like in my case. And if it does hit her, it will hit like a ton of bricks. I do not know your wife and she sounds strong... so I hope this doesn't happen.... but is it possible that she hasn't felt the worst and when she does.... I do not want her to somehow resent you further for not making the decision to leave...
praying for you....
bg

[rdsmith3]

kelly1

Please keep in mind that we are all sinners, too. Our rebuke is mild. I believe that we all have the intention of helping you to avoid a more serious rebuke from the real Judge, our Lord. So please take this in the spirit of one sinner to another.

I even told my wife about it, and lamented having to, in effect, shun her since I don't want to anger her or punish her for my own sinfulness.

That statement stood out for me. You may not have meant it this way, but you are potentially hurting your wife very much with comments like that because it indicates you have some interest in this young lady. You should be more concerned with how you have hurt your God and your wife, and you should care more about His anger and her anger. It is good that you recognize that you hurt this young woman, but you seem to continue to have a degree of empathy for her that indicates there are still some feelings for her within you. I could be totally wrong on this because I do not know you; I am just asking you to be careful.

I don't think you know your own heart at this point, and you need to really guard yourself.

Remember Jeremiah 17:9

The heart is deceitful above all things,
and desperately sick;
who can understand it?