Growthtrac Community

[kelly1]

I have been happily married for almost 25 years to a devoted Christian woman who is both beautiful - more beautiful at 50 than she was when I married her - and the most emotionally healthy person I know. She is gracious, wise, loyal and fun. In short, all that a man could ever ask for in a wife. But two years ago, I started to become enchanted with a girl less than half my age in our church. It started when we were in a play together, and I could not take my eyes off of her. This, despite the fact we have few things in common, and that she has some unattractive character flaws, such as being quite socially retarded and often stuck-up. Finally, after furthering the friendship through casual conversation at church and then through internet chats, I finally succumbed to my weakness and told her I was in love with her. While admitting I had been a joy in her life, she reacted negatively, professed not to love me in the same way and could not understand how I would feel this way given my beautiful wife. After a couple of weeks of deep guilt, constant prayer, dark nights of the soul and detailed explanations on my part that I had misspoken and actually love her as I would a little sister, a couple of things happened to convince her my revised definition/explanation of my feelings were a positive thing, and she expressed love for me, though it is still unclear to me whether that love is just platonic or (perhaps subliminally) romantic. Ecstatic at this reconciliation and feeling a renewed love for my wife through this trial, I took to talking with this girl again at church and met with her a couple of times, feeling I now had it all…the perfect wife and a lovely young friend who trusted me. Until, that is, a look the girl unwittingly gave my wife somehow told my wife something had happened between us, and I was forced to come clean. It has been several weeks since that happened, my wife has worked this through with me extensively, has forgiven me and I believe things will be OK between us, but I still can not get this girl out of my head. After telling the girl that we should stop chatting at church and limit our communication to e-mails, the communication became less and less frequent, until recently when she never returned one of my e-mails. I responded by refusing to even acknowledge her or make any eye contact when we passed each other at church. Now I feel bad because I don’t want to hurt or cause emotional damage to an unformed young lady - she has not really done much wrong here - but I feel very anxious every time I enter church and face the prospect of seeing her and having this whole episode - and my uncertain feelings about her - replayed afresh in my mind. And I know I have no more room for error in my marriage. Could you please offer your wisdom, and tell me whether you think I should continue to shun her when I really do care for her happiness, or politely smile and make quick small talk at the risk of having this whole thing continue on in my mind. Thank you so much.

[km]

If you want to remain married (not to mention happily so), you have to clearly direct all of your romantic feelings at your wife and only your wife.

I don't believe that you have to "shun" the yong woman. But you can't be "friends" because you are having improper feelings for her (and you are indeed having improper feeling towards her). She knows that you have developed these inproper feelings, so simply tell her that you need to end you friendship because you need to focus all of your attention on your wife and repairing the damage you've done to your marriage. And simply stop your interaction with her. You needn't "shun" her - you may be civil when you unavoidably happen to be at the same place at the same time, but you have to limit yourself to a polite hello and not have any other interaction with her.

In a couple of months without contact, the fog of infatuation will lift and you can again tell your wife what a fool you were (i.e. what a fool you are being right now) and work on setting up appropriate boundaries to prevent this sort of thing from happening again.

[montanna]

I kinda disagree -
Maybe I am in a different place here, because I did had a short spout of adultery in my marriage from my husband... I feel that in order to save what you have with your wife- you should not be mean to this woman.... but change churches REMOVE your self from the temptation for good! No calls, no emails nothing... Right... isn't that what Jesus calls us to do.


This woman - if you really got to know on a relational level, you might not even really connect with. It is all fantasy at this point. You want what you can't have! I think we all go thru this to some extent, weather it be a person, house, car more stuff!!!

First of all, it is awesome that you have been honest and it never went any further. Please don't hurt your lovely wife any more than has been done. Adultery is the most hurtful thing anyone could ever go thru- and that is on both sides as well.

I am praying for you and your wife!

bg

[SAM]

This is what is called an emotional affair, although it appears a bit one-sided. It is an emotional
bond with someone of the opposite sex outside of your marriage.

I am concerned that after revealing this to your wife, that you are still pursuing contact
with this woman. Does your wife know? All contact with this woman must end... period.
No more contact.

It seems like you are punishing this young woman by shunning her because she is not
responding to your e-mails. There is something unhealthy about this type of reaction on
your part.

Dear brother, please consider seeing a counselor for awhile. You need to understand
what is broken within you emotionally and spiritually that you would risk your marriage
over this young woman.

[kelly1]

I can not tell you how grateful I am for the Godly counsel I have received in short order on this site.

I know I must cut all contacts with this young lady, and I am certain that if I did not see her anymore, this would eventually fade into the sunset. I also am fully aware that if I pursued this relationship further, I might well become convinced of its overwhelming futility and flaws, but the fact that I am not pursuing it also allows the fantasies of what it could be to remain in my mind, unopposed by experience.

As I said, I see her most Sundays and for a variety of reasons, including a position of leadership in the church and the centrality of the church to the lives of my family, changing churches is not a possibility. Herein rests the root of the problem, and no easy answers - either shunning or politeness - are available, for both are pregnant with problems. God forbid I shun her and she talks trash about me behind my back and possibly threatens my reputation in the church. But God forbid I engage her to even a minimal degree and thus go back to square one in my own recovery from this every Sunday.

I simply have no peace.

Now, I did tell my wife I was planning to see a counselor, but she insisted that she be included in the sessions. I told her I was not interested in that because this is my problem and I need to work through the root causes myself. She and I have had great emotional intimacy, perhaps greater than ever through this trial (though there have also, of course, been times of emptiness, despair and an inability to communicate), and we have largely been our own therapists as it relates to our marriage, spending countless hours working this through. We both know what we need to do. But she said she fears my getting involved deeply with a counselor and having all kinds of things from my whole life brought out, without her participation.

I guess the shining light in all this is that I have been literally or figuratively on my knees every single day for the last three months - the current term of this episode - and am now fully aware of my total and utter dependence on the Lord. For there is no hope elsewhere.

Thank you again to those who have given of your time and wisdom, and for demonstrating the tough love I probably need right now. But I am also trying to remind myself how quickly I struggled to repent once I blurted out to this young lady, and allowing myself the grace to remember that this could have been a lot worse. Do you think it's OK to try and give myself some grace here?

I covet whatever additional Godly counsel can be offered.

[montanna]

Of course you should give your self " some Grace" everyone makes mistakes. All of us do!

I disagree again, you and your wife need to see a therapist apart and together, she also has some hurt to work thru now.

And she wants to why?? this will be the forever question??? and if at some point she can be apart of your therapy, she may begin to understand somewhere! Does this make sense.

So, you Can't change churches... ok... but please don't make excuses as to why you may stiil have to have contact with this person~ Sorry if that came out harsh I am just being honest here. My H slip, was text flirting then he feel very deppressed and made the worst mistake of his life because he didn't cut all contact with her becasue he was affraid she would tell me. Look what happened! I know your situation is very different they all are, I am just speaking from what I know!

Bg

[km]

SAM "This is what is called an emotional affair, although it appears a bit one-sided. It is an emotional
bond with someone of the same sex outside of your marriage."

You did mean "opposite sex" in that line, yes?

[km]

kelly1 - You absolutely need to end the friendship and limit all contact and eliminate communication. Any fantasy issues you have will fade fairly quickly after the contact is ended.

Again, be polite and civil to her, but end the contact. She might talk trash behind your back - no matter how you handle this. That is one of the possible consequences of YOUR error in getting into this mess and it is outside of your control. Your reputation may take a bit of a dent. You haven't done anything yet that warrants a complete loss of reputation - but you do have to understand that you actually merit a bit of humbling here (your pride as to your reputation is leading you to remain in a dangerous temptation scenario that runs a risk of your totally destroying your reputation).

The fog of infatuation has you thinking poorly right now. Listen to people who've come through it and take heed of their good advice.

[rdsmith3]

I think montanna and km have said it very well. I am going to join the chorus and tell you that you are not seeing this clearly. If you are in a position of leadership at a church, then you need to adhere to an even higher standard of behavior. See 1 Timothy 3:1-7 and Titus 1:6-9.

God forbid I shun her and she talks trash about me behind my back and possibly threatens my reputation in the church.

Is your "reputation" really a good reason to stop contact? What about God's reputation in this? You are His representative in your position at the church.

But God forbid I engage her to even a minimal degree and thus go back to square one in my own recovery from this every Sunday.

Actually, I think that God does forbid this -- she is not your wife.

I simply have no peace.

That is a consequence of acting on a lustful impulse.

I am not trying to be judgmental. We are all sinners. I completely understand the type of infatuation you are talking about. But it is not real, and it is not how God asks you to behave.

Oh, by the way, welcome!

[SAM]

Yes, "opposite sex" - thanks, KM!!

Now, I did tell my wife I was planning to see a counselor, but she insisted that she be included in the sessions. I told her I was not interested in that because this is my problem and I need to work through the root causes myself.

Reflect back on your wife's words - she is reaching out to you for joint counseling. I would guess that is important to her, and why she brought it up. By shutting her out, that may be what she feels is another "emotional wall" between you.
While you need to do this on your own, it is important to do some of the sessions with your wife. She needs her questions answered - that is part of the healing process. She needs to understand "where" these feelings for another woman came from.

God forbid I shun her and she talks trash about me behind my back and possibly threatens my reputation in the church.

The possible trash she may speak, is not what will ruin your reputation. Do not lay this in the lap of this young woman.
This, unfortunately, lies in your lap. You are the one who made choices to compromise your reputation, she did not.

Proverbs 6:27-28
Can a man scoop fire into his lap without his clothes being burned?
Can a man walk on hot coalswithout his feet being scorched?

Whether you are cordial or shun this woman, are you prepared for your actions to be revealed? God has a way of exposing darkness to the light. Prepare yourself for the reality of this happening and talk with your wife about how the two of you will handle this if it does happen. Be prepared to be completely truthful about your role. Cover-up is not acceptable. I'm not sure from your post if you are the one who is in a place of leadership, but if you are, then it is time to step down for a season. Prayerfully consider revealing your situation to the pastor and elders before it is found out. These are the steps for someone who is trully repentant, and wants to work toward God's healing grace.

Honestly, you owe this young woman an apology for your actions - with your wife present.

Perhaps, this will bring you the peace you need.

[jmwc95]

[quoteI have been happily married for almost 25 years to a devoted Christian woman who is both beautiful - more beautiful at 50 than she was when I married her - and the most emotionally healthy person I know. She is gracious, wise, loyal and fun. In short, all that a man could ever ask for in a wife. But two years ago, I started to become enchanted with a girl less than half my age in our church. It started when we were in a play together, and I could not take my eyes off of her. This, despite the fact we have few things in common, and that she has some unattractive character flaws, such as being quite socially retarded and often stuck-up.[/quote]

Finally, after furthering the friendship through casual conversation at church and then through internet chats, I finally succumbed to my weakness and told her I was in love with her.

You play with fire, and you will eventually get burned. This is why you don't have close personal relationships with members of the opposite sex. Your mistake was getting closer to the woman. People make the mistake of flirting with danger thinking they have enough willpower to resist temptation. The simple fact is that most people would cheat given the right circumstances. The key is not putting yourself in those circumstances.

While admitting I had been a joy in her life, she reacted negatively, professed not to love me in the same way and could not understand how I would feel this way given my beautiful wife.

You are lucky she has some morals (even though she may need to work on some boundaries). Otherwise, you would have been in a full blown affair that wouldn't have stopped until your wife found out. Even then, you would have probably teetered back and forth until you almost lost everything.

After a couple of weeks of deep guilt, constant prayer, dark nights of the soul and detailed explanations on my part that I had misspoken and actually love her as I would a little sister, a couple of things happened to convince her my revised definition/explanation of my feelings were a positive thing, and she expressed love for me, though it is still unclear to me whether that love is just platonic or (perhaps subliminally) romantic.

I just read that you lied and then rationalized your continuance of this emotional affair, hoping deep down it would go further.

Ecstatic at this reconciliation and feeling a renewed love for my wife through this trial, I took to talking with this girl again at church and met with her a couple of times, feeling I now had it all…the perfect wife and a lovely young friend who trusted me. Until, that is, a look the girl unwittingly gave my wife somehow told my wife something had happened between us, and I was forced to come clean.

Read: Ecstatic that your affair was still on, and enjoying having both a wife and an emotional affair partner, you got more brazen until you got caught.

It has been several weeks since that happened, my wife has worked this through with me extensively, has forgiven me and I believe things will be OK between us, but I still can not get this girl out of my head. After telling the girl that we should stop chatting at church and limit our communication to e-mails, the communication became less and less frequent, until recently when she never returned one of my e-mails. I responded by refusing to even acknowledge her or make any eye contact when we passed each other at church. Now I feel bad because I don’t want to hurt or cause emotional damage to an unformed young lady - she has not really done much wrong here - but I feel very anxious every time I enter church and face the prospect of seeing her and having this whole episode - and my uncertain feelings about her - replayed afresh in my mind. And I know I have no more room for error in my marriage. Could you please offer your wisdom, and tell me whether you think I should continue to shun her when I really do care for her happiness, or politely smile and make quick small talk at the risk of having this whole thing continue on in my mind. Thank you so much.

You need to have total separation from this woman for life. This is what Dr. Harley has to say in one of his columns:

Once an affair is first revealed, whether it's discovered or admitted, the victimized spouse is usually in a state of shock. The first reaction is usually panic, but it's quickly followed by anger. Divorce and sometimes even murder are contemplated. But after some time passes (usually about three weeks), most couples decide that they will try to pull together and save their marriage.

The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.

Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through hell. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.

Look at M.S.'s husband. Here he is, thousands of miles from his lover, and yet he still feels compelled to call her. Can you imagine the trouble M.S. would have had separating them if they had not moved? Their move was the best thing that could have happened to their marriage because it not only revealed the affair, but it also set up the conditions that would make ending it possible -- total separation.

We don't know if R.J. still sees his lover, but he says he has broken off all contact. In many cases where a person is still in town, that's hard to prove. But one thing's for sure, if he ever does see his lover, it will put him in a state of perpetual withdrawal from his addiction, and make the resolution of his marriage essentially impossible. In fact, one of the reasons he is not recovering after three months of separation may be that he is not being truthful about the separation.

How should an unfaithful spouse tell his lover that their relationship is over? If left to their own devices, many would take a Caribbean cruise to say their final good-byes. Obviously, that will not do. In fact, I recommend that the final good-bye be in the form of a letter, and not in person or even by telephone.

My advice is to write a final letter in a way that the victimized spouse would agree to send it. It should begin with a statement of how selfish it was to cause those they loved so much pain, and while marital reconciliation cannot completely repay the offense, it's the right thing to do. A statement should be made about how much the unfaithful spouse cares about his spouse and family, and for their protection, has decided to completely end the relationship with the lover. He or she has promised never to see or communicate with the lover again in life, and asks the lover to respect that promise. Nothing should be said about how much the lover will be missed. After the letter is written, the victimized spouse should read and approve it before it is sent.

I know I must cut all contacts with this young lady, and I am certain that if I did not see her anymore, this would eventually fade into the sunset.

You are correct.

I also am fully aware that if I pursued this relationship further, I might well become convinced of its overwhelming futility and flaws, but the fact that I am not pursuing it also allows the fantasies of what it could be to remain in my mind, unopposed by experience.

That is why you need to cut off all contact. You can't fantasize about someone you don't even remember anymore.

As I said, I see her most Sundays and for a variety of reasons, including a position of leadership in the church and the centrality of the church to the lives of my family, changing churches is not a possibility. Herein rests the root of the problem, and no easy answers - either shunning or politeness - are available, for both are pregnant with problems. God forbid I shun her and she talks trash about me behind my back and possibly threatens my reputation in the church. But God forbid I engage her to even a minimal degree and thus go back to square one in my own recovery from this every Sunday.

Baloney. Changing churches IS a possibility AND it is something you SHOULD do. No contact means no contact. It is the only way you will get over your addiction and infatuation. The longer there is contact, the higher the probability that you two will start things up again. GOD FORBID that you have to experience the consequences of being unfaithful to your wife. Your reputation at church SHOULD be damaged, if for no other reason, then for other women to know they should steer clear from you. If you do the crime, you need to step up and accept the consequences for your actions. If no one in the church knows of your unfaithfulness, who will keep you accountable when you are sneaking around with her again? If you don't want them to know, switch churches, and never see this woman again. It's that simple.

Now, I did tell my wife I was planning to see a counselor, but she insisted that she be included in the sessions. I told her I was not interested in that because this is my problem and I need to work through the root causes myself. She and I have had great emotional intimacy, perhaps greater than ever through this trial (though there have also, of course, been times of emptiness, despair and an inability to communicate), and we have largely been our own therapists as it relates to our marriage, spending countless hours working this through. We both know what we need to do. But she said she fears my getting involved deeply with a counselor and having all kinds of things from my whole life brought out, without her participation.

This is her problem as well, having her husband sneaking around with other women. You are a married couple and you should work on things TOGETHER. One big love busting behavior is INDEPENDENT BEHAVIOR and you are damaging your relationship with your wife bigtime by acting this way. Independent counselors have been known to be idiots who have their clients waste their time focusing on their childhood instead of working on their current behavior and have led certain spouses to the conclusion that they should leave their significant other. Not to mention you might LIE or SUGARCOAT certain behaviors to your counselor. My wife was seeing a counselor who was helping her decide if she should stay in our marriage or leave, yet she never disclosed she was having an affair at the time as well as all of HER failings in the marriage. Getting one side of the story does nothing for your situation.

I guess the shining light in all this is that I have been literally or figuratively on my knees every single day for the last three months - the current term of this episode - and am now fully aware of my total and utter dependence on the Lord. For there is no hope elsewhere.

Thank you again to those who have given of your time and wisdom, and for demonstrating the tough love I probably need right now. But I am also trying to remind myself how quickly I struggled to repent once I blurted out to this young lady, and allowing myself the grace to remember that this could have been a lot worse. Do you think it's OK to try and give myself some grace here?

Your sin wasn't blurting out that you loved the other woman, it was getting closer to her to begin with. No, don't pat yourself on the back yet. You still need to cut off all contact with the woman and involve your wife in your marriage counseling. Work WITH her.

I'm sorry if I come off a little blunt, but there are certain truths that you need to understand. Contact = affair and damage to your marriage continues. I'm sure your wife doesn't always want to be looking over her shoulder at this other woman who you see on a weekly basis. As a betrayed spouse myself, that would be unacceptable, even if she may seem okay with it.

[charity1]

kelly1,

As I said, I see her most Sundays and for a variety of reasons, including a position of leadership in the church and the centrality of the church to the lives of my family, changing churches is not a possibility.

Sorry, this is not only a possibility, it is a necessity.

Matthew 5:27-30 "You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.' But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

You have already committed adultery in your heart. You have already betrayed your wife as well as God. Speaking as a woman whose husband had a full blown affair with a younger woman from church, you need to run as fast as you can possibly run. The Bible says to "flee fornication" for a reason. You can't dabble. Nobody is that strong. My husband and I had attended the same church for over 20 years, but we chose to leave it in order to save our marriage. Our two grown children still go to church there as well as several members of my husband's family. You do what you have to do! It was very hard, but we did it, and we are both very happy at the church we are attending now. You can choose whether or not you want to tell others why you left, or you can simply tell them it was "time for a change," because it is defnitely time for a change. Why you left may or may not come out, but that is the least of your worries. You need to save your soul and then your marriage. You have already hurt your wife more than you can imagine. What you need to do is to put yourself in your wife's shoes and ask yourself what you would want her to do if she was in this situation. What if she was infatuated with another man at church, had told him she was in love with him and had been communicating with him behind your back? What would you want her to do? How would you want her to handle it? "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." I'm sure if you talked to my husband, he would be more than happy to tell you that a few minutes of perceived pleasure are not worth the lifetime of guilt and shame and loss of reputation that you will have to endure if this goes any further. I'm afraid you are already going to have an awful lot of guilt and shame to deal with once you come out from under the devil's spell from how far this has progressed already. The devil is going to try to convince you to go ahead and see how close you can get to this woman to see if your love is real or not, but let me tell you, your love is not real. It is a temptation that has been put in your path. Don't give in any more than you already have. Pray like you've never prayed before, study the Bible like you've never studied before, then create the boundaries you need and should have had all along.

[neeny21252]

Hi
I am truly confused as to why you would leave your wife out of counceling. even emotional affairs (which are just as painful as the sexual ones - one give ones body the other gives one heart - either way something that belongs and was vowed to your wife), are crushing. Please do not assume you have her (your lovely wife) trust - it has been summed up so well in the article above!! for my H and I to build trust I had to be included in everything to see he truly had nothing to hide from me. his word was not enough - and i could not trust he would tell me all. It is not just your problem (my H and i tried this the first year - he went alone for it was his problem and i would join him when ready - thank the lord he had other plans)

I respect the difficulty to leave your church. but sometimes we must? I have watched a family member step down from the pulpit for the same reason. at the time i thought he was crazy after all he had not crossed the line. Until he gentle told me he had. any thoughts of another woman in the eyes of God he felt was adultry.

I will be praying for both of you on this journey

[kelly1]

Boy, you are a tough crowd. Just how is it fair to drag my family out of the church we have loved, and around which we have built our spiritual lives (including my home-schooled son, whose friends are all from church), because I let a foolish impulse overtake me for a short time, and which I now fully understand I must entirely relinquish? I believe I will simply have to bear the burden of my own foolishness when I see this young lady and any thoughts re-enter my mind, but the communication would be so limited and entirely unplanned (or more precisely, would happen only in spite of strong efforts to avoid it) - right now I'm leaning towards total lack of acknowledgment - that there will be no possibility of re-igniting anything. Yes, my wife hurts, but that hurt will fade, and even now, is not comparable to the hurt she would feel from being forced to leave this church. If any communication happened, it would be by e-mail, and changing churches would hardly eliminate that possibility. But I vow each day afresh not to do that. One thing I have not said in my posts is that this young lady, for all her flaws, has extraordinary spiritual maturity, and has likely stopped communicating for the very reason that she has concluded it will damage my marriage, for which she has expressed - and demonstrated - great respect. This is ALL my fault, and yes, if she was a pagan or even a Christian prone to carnal delights, and given that I am tall, dark, handsome and successful (not boasting, but this is how I am perceived) and much older than her, she would have taken my overture and run with it. But she has always been clear about boundaries. It was only after she - and I - were convinced that I was not actually "in love" with her that she opened her mind to having a re-defined relationship, even if that was ill-advised on my part. And my wife has also been clear about boundaries since she found out, but doing so by making me understand myself and accepting, like you guys have, that this is necessary to assure this will not happen again, as opposed to simply issuing an ultimatum. She is so loving. It would wound me and my family so deeply to leave the church. I can not and will not do it.

[neeny21252]

thank you for clarrifying!! I am very proud of you for including your wife in it all. I respect your feelings on your church and am thrilled to hear it is something you and your wife decided together
will keep praying for you both