Growthtrac Community

[SAM]

Given the opportunity, most human beings will peek over the fence, rather than
stand 10 feet back from it and shout to the other side.

Question:
As brothers and sisters in Christ, should our standards be higher than the rest of the world?

Just curious.

[km]

Our standards should be higher.

But the question is "how do we go about raising them?"

The OT Jews loved to do the hedges around the hedges around the hedges system of trying to stay 10 feet back from the fence - and when 10 proved imperfect, stading 20 feet, and on. That is the source of much of the cumbersome Orthodox Jewish tradition (a man can't be anywhere with an unrelated woman - all the odd Sabbath rules about how far one can walk or how much one can lift before it is deemed "work" - etc.). That mindset turns in Sharia law eventually. And there is still sin in the Islamic world where Sharia law is in full swing.

[fishi]

Charity, I've kept up with your story and I know this would be devastating to anyone; and my heart goes out to you.

The problem started when your husband did not back off when the first glimmer of attraction happened. You mention that you had a "bad" feeling early on. You may have known before anyone else that this was not developing into a healthy relationship. Which leads us to Sam's question:

As brothers and sisters in Christ, should our standards be higher than the rest of the world?

We are to live according to God's will. It is our responsibility to study God's Law and learn what that is. And then we are to strive to live accordingly, and not live "wordly".

[fishi]

I see that Km posted before I did and asks how do we accomplish "that higher standard".

I think someone posted, earlier on the thread, that a certain minister conducted his matters so that there wouldn't even be the appearance of impropriety. If you think and conduct yourself in this matter it will naturally guard you against most temtptation. Satan is ever present and in the business of snaring souls. Knowing that, it seems most unwise to jeopardize salvation, even a "little".

[rdsmith3]

fishi

That was me who posted that. Our pastor has these rules for himself to avoid the appearance of impropriety.

I think having rules ahead of time (like Sam's) is a really good start. It minimizes, but does not eliminate, the chance for adultery. It's like having the guns locked in a safe vs. having them loaded in the drawer next to the bed.

[SAM]

I love this scripture from Timothy 2:21-22 -
In a well-furnished kitchen there are not only crystal goblets and silver platters, but waste cans and compost buckets—some containers used to serve fine meals, others to take out the garbage. Become the kind of container God can use to present any and every kind of gift to his guests for their blessing. (MSG)

And, from Proverbs 21:2-

We justify our actions by appearances; God examines our motives. (MSG)

[veggiemelt]

km and rd
Most problems of intimacy stem from something outside of the bedroom. I had no idea that our finances and my seemingly outward lack of total concern for them had anything to do with affection or intimacy. It seems so totally unrelated by a female perspective. Interestingly enough, when I stepped up and took and interest and started showing more respect for our financial situation and stopped fighting my husband for control over it, my husband stopped withholding affection from me. He also stopped trying to control me, because I am controlling myself.

Maybe the answer to your problems lies in something you would have never imagined, due largely to gender differences and priorities or responsibilities laid upon us as women and men. Maybe your answers could lie in something as simple as cleaning the garage or picking up after yourself, or not tracking mud across a freshly mopped floor. Maybe it has nothing to do with the "relationship" at all. Maybe it has more to do with respect for what the other person brings to the function of the marriage.

Maybe the burden she bears in terms of work, or family responsibility is wearing her down and fixing or lower, or even respecting her responsibility is really more the focus of her primary need or frustration - the stuff she thinks about all day that bugs her while you are thinking about how much you wish she would want more sex. And maybe the fact the she withholds affection from you or doesn't feel really close to you has more to do with the fact that your need is just not her top priority. Primarily, because she has needs that aren't being met and you don't even know what they are. Relieving pressure from her in another area, could make her feel more trust and security from you. Thus opening the door to her heart - which is by the way also the door to her other parts.

[charity1]

Great post, veggiemelt! That is so true.

[rdsmith3]

veggiemelt,

I appreciate your input, but it is much more deep-seated and complex than that. I wish it were as simple as me helping around the house. I do a lot of that.

My story is here, if you scroll down a bit
http://forums.growthtrac.com/topic1542.html

What I wrote over a year ago is still true today. In particular, these points are still the way we are:

o My wife is struggling with trusting God and trusting me. She believes God let her down when she was a child, and He has done it again. She generally mistrusts men in general. She is bitter, resentful, and unforgiving of me (and God?) although I have apologized for my role in things, repented, and asked for forgiveness. In many of our conversations, she often repeats what I have done wrong and what my son has done over the last 4.5 years. She cannot let go of any hurt or any perceived injustice.
o She seems to not love me or like me. Her heart is closed to me. We are rarely intimate. She will not even kiss me (I mean a real kiss). We are both weary from all the stress of dealing with the marriage and the situation with my son.
o She believes that even my talking on the phone to my son (when I am at work, not at home) means I have a relationship with the “perpetrator” and she is the “victim”. She is hurt by this. She is very fearful of my son, and believes he could stalk the family and possibly kill or injure a family member. (We have installed a security system and changed the locks.)

She seems to be really angry almost all the time, and punishes me in a lot of different ways.

[charity1]

rdsmith3,
Helping around the house is just being used as an example of what a woman might be needing or what might be causing her resentment. Like veggiemelt said, your wife's greatest need may not be what you think. It sounds like your wife is very insecure. She wants to know that she is your number one priority, even above your children. I'm guessing she is craving words of affirmation as mentioned in Dr. Gary Chapman's Five Love Languages. It sounds like she has never felt really loved and can use all the compliments and encouraging words she can get. She will have to be told over and over how great she is to finally be able to accept that she is loveable. Somehow she needs to come to understand that she is made in God's image and that she is worthy of love. I know that you have a unique situation with your son, but she needs to understand that he will always be your son no matter what. As a mother, she should be able to understand that. If she is afraid of him, she shouldn't be forced to spend any time around him, but she should respect your right to speak to him or even see him away from her if you want to. She shouldn't feel any competition with him for your affection. The only thing I can suggest is to treat her with respect and go out of your way to show admiration for her. Make her feel loved and cherished above everyone else, then just keep praying for her. You have a tough situation.

[rdsmith3]

charity1

I think she first needs to believe that God loves her and forgives her, and I cannot make her do that. I truly believe that much of her conflict and battling is really with God. She cannot believe that a loving God would allow a child to be molested by her father. She had a distorted relationship with her earthly father, which has affected her relationship with her heavenly Father.

How much clearer could I make it to her that she is a priority? I put my son in a hospital then in an institution for a year. I told him he was not welcome in the house. I made it very clear to my son in repeated letters, e-mails, and phone calls that his treatment of my wife was not acceptable and he had to repent. I have not spoken to him since last August. I have not e-mailed him since Christmas. I have virtually no relationship with him, yet my wife will always find some reason to say she does not trust me; she will always find something I have done to be angry about; she will always find something to fear.

[fishi]

Rd, I imagine your wife knows that abuse, in any form, is not from God and suppose that "Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose." doesn't provide comfort if your wife is Angry with God for not protecting her.

If your wife's experience is to "work together for good" perhaps she will come to understand, that if she pursues healing her experience will be a powerful ministry to others who have suffered abuse. God exhorts us to seek him. (YIKES!!! I always find exhort to be such a powerful word.)

I will pray for your wife, her faith and for your marriage and family.

[j3anjean]

Rd,

It certainly sounds like your wife has deeper seated issues.

When I was living a very sinful life I denied God. I was angry at Him. At my worst moments, I would say awful things to Him and about Him. You can and do love and support your wife. Ultimately, her relationship with the Savior and Creator is an issue she needs to work through with Him. You can only live by example.

I continue to lift you both up in prayer.

[rdsmith3]

Thanks for your prayers.

[veggiemelt]

rd,

I haven't read your whole story yet, but this thought just occurred to me. Remember that I said - what is 'Her greatest need". If it is really difficult for her to trust men, maybe her greatest need is for you to make a total sacrafice for her.
Show her that she is worth literally anything to you, and in doing so, you can also show her how much she means to Christ. rd, Can you sacrafice your son to save her? Maybe that is really what she needs from you?

Sometimes just proving to someone that you would in fact sacrafice everything, is enough. In other words, she might not really be asking you for something like that. But in order to be able to place her trust in you or any other man, she needs a completely selfless act that is entirely for her. Maybe it would help her realize that she is in deed worth something.
I don't know, just a random thought I had.