Growthtrac Community

[SAM]

Then the Marriage Revolution may fit the bill.

[km]

I don't know that my wife has the instantly dismissive attitude as to all men that rd's wife has acquired - so I am going with the set I have (see below). I do plan to buy those you mention though. Ethridge's book was clearly, firmly and forthrightly phrased. It may not work (if she reads it at all), but I am out of time/patience for halfway measures.

The list reading stack for her:
Shaunti Feldman's pair - For Men Only & For Women Only
Eggerich's Love & Respect
Rosberg's 5 Love Needs Of Men & Women
Ethridge's Sexually COnfident Wife
Schkessinger's Proper Care & Feeding Of Husbands
Brotherson's And They Were Not Ashamed: Strengthening Marriage Through Sexual Fullfillment (this one is written by an LDS writer, and has a lot of LDS source material to got along with Scriptural references)

[charity1]

km,

I don't know that it really seems to be much progress. She'll lay back and do her duty - in as limited a fashion as she can - a bit more often because I appear to be making her do so. That feels like placating/pity/whatever rather than resolving the real problem. If I am essentially just going to get more frequent physical releases without ever fully making love, has there been real progress? I would rather have good, fully engaged sex on the old every other month schedule than bad, non-engaged sex 3 times a week. I can get a 'just a physical release' event all by myself.

The point you are missing here is that she understands that you want more. She is just not understanding exactly what you mean by more. She obviously loves you and cares about you or she wouldn't be interested in trying to make you happy by increasing the frequency. Acknowledge this baby step. Back in mine and your wife's day we were taught that if our husbands got it at home, they wouldn't go anywhere else. They failed to mention that just getting it wasn't enough. Then when you throw into the mix that some men go to prostitutes and even farm animals, women can easily get the idea that a man doesn't really care where or how he gets it, just so he gets it. Your wife needs to be taught. I didn't get it until my husband actually explained it to me, then I started reading books, and now I feel like a complete idiot. I felt like my husband wasn't deprived, I was there for him, so what more did he want? I felt like he just couldn't be pleased.

I have mentioned this to you before, but I believe it is really important to compliment your wife and make her feel special even though she doesn't accept the compliments well. She still hears you whether she acts like she appreciates it or not. The better a woman feels about herself, the more self-confident she will be. If she is complimented enough, she may get to where she believes you actually mean it. Every woman wants to feel like her husband finds her attractive. Also, I used to think my husband should know what I wanted in the bedroom without my having to tell him. I have learned better than that now, but ask your wife what she enjoys. Let her know you want to please her. If she won't tell you, try to tune into her during the process and see if you can tell what seems to get to her. She may be subtle, but you should be able to pick up on something. It seems like she is trying, but if you don't acknowledge her efforts, she will give up trying. Lovemaking should be about pleasing our partner nor ourselves. So try to focus on her and what she wants. She has some buttons, you just have to find them to push them. Sometimes I'm not really in the mood, but now that my husband has found my buttons, he can get me from 0 to 60 pretty quickly anyway. Don't give up. As long as you two are still breathing, there is hope.

[km]

charity1 - she knows what I want (generally, not precisely because she won't even discuss anything 'gross and disgusting' - the sorts of horrible perversions that most couples do routinely), and that just isn't going to happen without a major attitude change on her part. She is trying to buy me off with somewhat greater frequency. My problem is precisely that I am not getting it at home, just a very pale immitation of it.

To use a golf analogy: I want to play full rounds of golf (perhaps even some challenging courses now and then) using the driver and the irons and the sand wedge along with the putter, while she insists that we stay on the practice putting green, and never even think about the rest of the clubs in the bag. Going to the putting green a little more often isn't addressing the issues at all.

I work very hard to please her. How many women climax nearly every time through intercourse alone - sometimes twice even - with no foreplay at all, and in nothing but missionary position? It used to be more than twice sometimes, back when a tiny amount of foreplay was permitted. My lower back herniated disc hates me passionately for the strain I put on it to please her.

[SAM]

I was a gross and disgusting kind of wife when I first got married. It's my religious upbringing. However, I am grateful to some other women in my life who taught me otherwise. Also, some very good marriage seminars that we went to addressed this topic very well.

How many women climax nearly every time through intercourse alone - sometimes more than twice - with no foreplay at all, and in nothing but missionary position?

Perhaps, this is why she is not interested in sex? It's likely to deaden any positive response after years of repetitiveness.
Wondering why everything is gross and repulsive? Does she believe that Christian couples should have sex in this manner?

Wondering if she would be willing to speak to other women (privately here on the boards) that would encourage her?

All the books you have are great. I'm wondering why she has chosen not to read any of them? My guess is she does not want to see herself. As a woman, I would long to know the potential for what I could experience with my husband.

I know, as you have said before... she's not like other women.

Deep down, I know she shares a commonality with me because God has wired us (deep within for a longing) for connectedness.

Put all the books aside, and say, "I'd like to spend the next few nights reading something from the bible together as a couple."

Read Song of Songs to her - its God's model for passion and intimacy. It's pure and straight from the bible. Amazingly, God devoted a whole book to the wonders of marital sex. I guess he felt it was rather important. Here's a great article from Growthrac that explores the meanings and metaphors used in Song of Songs - it makes for some rather interesting reading. BTW - my husband loves fawns, mountains, towers, and twins of a gazelle. We laugh together when we see deer on the side of the road. Look, honey, fawns!

http://www.growthtrac.com/artman/publis ... x-1036.php

[km]

I have several books on the Song of Songs (or Song of Solomon or Canticles, depending on the translation). I studied them when I was trying to determine whether it really was a case of me being a filthy pervert (so as to know whether I needed to work at changing that facet of myself). It is amazingly erotic, and really does give a green light to essentially anything that is strictly between the spouses. One doesn't get that sense unless one is open to getting that sense.

[km]

Perhaps, this is why she is not interested in sex? It's likely to deaden any positive response after years of repetitiveness.

If there had been a distinct change over time I might go with that theory, but it has been largely consistent from the start (with just a slow, small contracting of the limits). If she were bored, or needing more, would she not then tend to open her mind to accepting more?

I've often wondered if the fact that I have made sure she climaxes despite all the obstacles she puts in the way has hurt my chances of getting her to explore beyond the limited line she'll permit. If she had to have other stimulation in order to get hers, might she have found a way to open her mind to it?

[SAM]

Sometimes, we human beings, get into a ritual way of thinking (one way is the only way). Perhaps, if that one way was no longer offered, then other ways might emerge.

So, if you did studying of SOS, on your own, why not study it as a couple?

Simply throwing out food for thought...

[km]

I was hoping to get ehr started anywhere in the set of books I mentioned before. Rather than "forcing a sex book" on her (not the way to get her to approach with an open mind, I reckon), I was going to set the small stack out for her to pick from in any order she wants. I thought that might generate a better mindset for her to be open to whatever she started with - and any of them could be used to lead to the others - they weave a rather seamless web taken as a whole.

[SAM]

That might work, and it might backfire too. It depends on her mindset. I am open to whatever my husband asks me to read, or vice versa, but not all spouses are. It can be looked at as a "trying to fix me" proposal. Leaving the stack of books in a place where they might be seen is worth trying.

However, there can be a more dramatic change in the makeup of a marriage when one spouse asks the other to spend time reading/studying scripture with them.

[km]

Everything else has backfired for the last 28 years and counting, I'm sort of used to it at this point.

Your idea of other women educating her sounds great - probably more effective than anything else would be - but I have no idea how to get that going. She hasn't any real close friends and doesn't engage in that sort of talk with anyone.

Anyone here interested in taking on a pen pal (email) mentoring burden? Send a PM.

[SAM]

Has the reading of scripture together also backfired?

[km]

We have not read Scripture together. She hasn't been open to following my lead on church related things in general (or anything else, really) - I haven't tried this though.

[charity1]

km,
I believe I have a whole different concept of what we are dealing with here now. Your wife is not opposed to the physical relationship, she is opposed to trying new things involved in the physical relationship. That is a whole different ballgame. All this time I thought she was totally turned off by the physical aspect of the relationship in general, but in reality it sounds like she is not only not turned off but actually enjoys it. it appears that the problem is that you aren't satisfied with "vanilla" like you had mentioned once before but actually want whipped cream and sprinkles. It sounds like whipped cream and sprinkles turn your wife's stomach. That is more or less a personal preference, and she may or may not ever change her taste whether she thinks they are ok or not. Is not having the extras really worth wanting to end the relationship over? If you aren't careful you are going to get so consumed with what you think you may be missing that you lose what you actually have. The devil has a way of getting into our heads and making us unhappy about our current conditions. I am so afraid that if you continue in your current mindset you are going to fall victim to temptation. Your wife may or may not be capable of reconciling after the ultimate betrayal happens. That is a huge gamble to take, but even if she took you back, you would have to live with yourself. You scare me to death, km, I see so many of the signs in you that I saw in my husband prior to D-day. Fear of losing the use of your equipment and being bored with your wife are two very dangerous signs. Please pray for contentment in your marriage, and pray that you and your wife can become closer both emotionally and physically, Studying the Bible together is a wonderful idea. The stronger the two of you grow spiritually, the more in tuned you will be to each other. God has to be the focus of your life. Once your focus starts to be on worldly things, your contentment starts to spiral downward. Keep your eyes on Jesus. Your wife may see starting with the Song of Songs as being a little self-serving, so you might start somewhere else and work your way there unless you are feeling especially froggy. God can work this out for you though if you put your focus on Him and trust Him to provide for the needs in your life. Count the blessings you currently have and try not to dwell on the blessings you feel like you deserve. You will be much more content, and your marriage will improve.

[SAM]

We have not read Scripture together. She hasn't been open to following my lead on church related things in general (or anything else, really) - I haven't tried this though.

I think we just had an ah-ha moment.

What on earth have you been waiting for? This is more intimate than sex. It melts all my defenses anytime my husband asks me to pray or read scripture together. As the male head of your home, it is important for you to take the lead on this - even if she resists. Keep pursuing her heart through connection with God.

Praying together is really hard - even for Christian couples. The very best statistics I have ever found are only 8% of Christian couples pray together. Really sad. Then we wonder why divorce rates are no better than secular marriages? Opening our eyes might be helpful.

Prayer can take on many forms -
1) Listening to any kind of Christian music together (even country is okay ) In the car, in the house, in the office, in the bathroom - Hmmm....growthtracradio.com????? It's available for I-Phones.
2) Writing out your blessings/wishes/desires/concerns for the week on index cards...then find an evening to share them with each other.
3) Taking walks, bike rides, long car rides, or a motorcycle ride to watch sunrises or sunsets...then talk about the beauty of what God has created.

This is true intimacy... not sex.

Second, I think Charity 1 is onto something -

Your wife may not like sprinkles and whipped cream, but she likes something enough to be open with you to allow herself the release of orgasm. If she were a wet frozen noodle...even that would not exist. So, there is some enjoyment in what is taking place, just not the enjoyment you would like to experience. My husband isn't overly fond of butterscotch, so do I keep asking for butterscotch because I LOVE it? - No.