Growthtrac Community

[rdsmith3]

You want him to idolize you? Isn't that a sin?

RD - I was exagerrating unrealistic expectations. (They are not mine.) Yet, you would be amazed how often I hear this from couples.

I was just kidding. I want the same thing, too, at times.

Next year is my big 50th birthday. On the one hand, I would like her to make a big deal out of it. On the other hand, I don't like drawing attention to myself, so I don't want her to make a big deal of it. She can't win either way, so I know I can be just as bad as she is in some ways.

[km]

I hope all had a nice Thanksgiving. While our lives all do seem to offer a mixed bag of good and bad, we all do have much to be thankful for - and much more to look forward to.

I got bad late Wed from a week of business trip. She said she had really missed me. We had a "nightcap" and an early morning reprise. Same old plain vanilla, but good plain vanilla. This seemed to be 'step forward' mode. We've hussled to empty our storage unit (now we have to fit all of into the new, much smaller townhouse somehow).

I head off Sun night for about another 10 days. Maybe that is doing her some good - the old 'absence makes the heart grow fonder' thing.

[SAM]

I distinctly remember the words written from your hands, "I would be happy with good old plain vanilla."
Now that you've had the opportunity to enjoy a weekend with vanilla, are you happy with it?

The fact that she verbalized that she missed you, is something worth celebrating!

[km]

I suppose I was sloppy in my terminology. If we could add permitting foreplay, a little variety in positions now and then, and an openness to a little oral play as a 'sometimes' part of that foreplay - I would not ask for anything else. That to me, would still be in the plain vanilla category - but I would accept it as a reasonable compromise - a midground in our respectibe views of what sex ought to be.
The same old no foreplay, missionary sex can, however, be nice when there seems to be a little passion in it. This was one of those instances. I want more long term - but that is the best I ever get.

[SAM]

Have you recently asked her for those things? By recently, I mean this week.

[km]

Persistenxe on my part makes things worse, not better.

So, thus week? No. Wanting more - and having that nastily rebuffed was a part of what had me considering moving out a few weeks ago. This does not appear to be a point where negotiation will be an avenue of resolution.

We are horribly mismatched sexually - not even operating in the same universe - and I thinkit is an inherent, deepseated, basic .core being issue (for which hope for resolution we could both be happy with seems dim).

[veggiemelt]

km - from what you describe here and what you have described in the past - I think you already have the highest experience every time. There is a huge difference between having sex and making love and unfortunately it is a whole lot easier to have sex then it is to make love. In fact for most of us - the simplistic experience of making love is actually very difficult, especially for us girls. It is just really hard for us to go there. Sex is much easier. I believe what your wife is giving to you in terms of herself and how she receives that experience is far closer then most of us ever get in a regular basis to the ultimate intimate experience. The things that you are looking for in terms of variety sort of tend to change the mindset of a female - the experience becomes more sexual then emotional when additional elements are added. And when we become accustomed to the addition and expectation of those other elements - we have a tendency to always move mentally more toward a sexual experience than a truly fulfilling emotionally bonding experience. And yet, the ladder is by far the most extraordinary for us. In truth, what she is giving you, is really more of what most women would prefer. And the reaction she is giving you in it is probably genuine and real. Which means as a male, you are also getting the real deal because she more then likely is not faking anything for you. I know and understand that you feel things are missing, and that is justified, but I think you may alread have far more then you realize and what you do have is something that is far more difficult to achieve.

[SAM]

Some really good points, Veggiemelt.

The $100 questions are:

1) Can I live with this?
2) If not, what do I expect to find elsewhere?
3) Would it be what God wants for me, or what I selfishly want for myself?
4) Is the grass really greener?
5) If I leave this marriage, and break God's law, will it draw me closer to God or further away?
6) Will I having sex outside of marriage with another woman?
7) I certainly don't want to be in a similar place sexually with someone else, so I'll completely ruin my life experimenting with my sexual desires to make sure I get what I want.

[km]

On some level I understand that, and therefore, I have stayed with her.

But accepting what you say, why would she risk not going with a little of the 'simple'?

That 'real thing' is strong, yet brittle or fragile - easily broken if damaged at its danger points. So why does she want to gamble with it? Why would she torture me and maximize my risk of eventual moral failure? I don't get it.

[km]

SAM - I missed your post when I checked in. I have had to run through all that countless times - particularly when temptations have presented themselves. I know what the right answer is supposed to be.

But I still don't see that it must - or should - be an either/or thing. I don't understand why I must be entirely frustrated and doomed to a dull sexlife because I intend to tay married.

Can't married people have a mutually fulfilling sexlife? Aren't they supposed to be the only ones that do have one?

I'm still there. But I also recognize that I am a flawed human. Some temptations are difficult to resist - and it seems so foolish & pointless to subject one's spouse to such dangers, particularly at a point of vulnerability.

In sports, one wears a cup and a helmet (and such). When we drive, we wear seatbelts and have airbags. Why is this danger ignored?

[SAM]

At what point do you think you will be able to address this issue with her? Communication is key...
and tip-toeing around the tulips expecting her to catch on to your frustration is the same as her expecting you to catch on to subtle hints. It simply does not work.

I imagine you may have made suggestions in the past, that have been met with anger and resentment. But, we both know things need to be different.

Until you openly share your heart and frustrations with her and the need for counseling to save your marriage,
things are not likely to change.

I know you need to wait right now, but when God leave you an open door, it will be time to walk through it.

[km]

I don't know whn I'll be able to adress the issues. I can't get her attention - I don't think I've tip-toed around it (well, she has a way of making everyone iin her life do that - she is volitile and vindictive - I've tip-toed no more than everyone else has to around her).

[veggiemelt]

I don't know Sam, I like the questions you posed earlier. And I would add to that the fact that, when we start asking ourselves those questions, are we really looking at our situation with a clear view. Are we seeing it as it really it, or are we only looking at what we think is missing and in doing so - missing out on what is really there.

km, why would you push for more when what is happening right now is such a huge step forward. Why not enjoy it for what it is and stop thinking about what it isn't? I know and understand that you feel cheated and you want the things that you lack, but like I said before, the things that you are lacking are not the best parts of it and it sounds like you already have the best parts of it, so just enjoy the upgrade in what you already have for the time being and forget about trying for more. If you don't, you might miss it and then you really will have something to feel bad about.

What I realized in my own situation, is that is comes and goes. It isn't always there, but I am learning to appreciate and fully take in the times when it is there. And I am trying to learn to hold onto those times through the dry spells so that I don't become lost and stuck in the times when there is distance between us. God didn't answer my prayers by giving me what I wanted all of the time, but he has blessed me in a way that is far more enriching by letting me quickly pass through a tunnel of heaven now and again. I used to feel like I was being teased or cheated because i couldn't have it all of the time. But now I realize, that it means so much more to me because I only get to hold it for a moment.

[FaithHopeJoy]

km,

I think you would expect your Growthtrac family to challenge you as well as encourage you? Can I ask you something? Did you really mean it when you described your wife in this way?

she is volitile and vindictive

The dictionary definition:

vindictive = showing malicious ill will and a desire to hurt; motivated by spite and resentment.

You have described many struggles but nothing you've written makes me think that your lady has a malicious desire to hurt you on purpose. Maybe she doesn't know how much she is hurting you because her own judgment is clouded by heartache? I listened to John Maxwell speaking at a business seminar a few years ago. He was talking about working relationships, but the message applies to personal relationships, too - Hurting people hurt people.
Lay it on the line, km. When you get back from your 10 days away from home (or even when you are in contact by phone/email while you're out of town), trust her enough to tell her how much you're hurting and ask her if she will trust you enough to share her hurts with you.

Oh - and you asked us a question, too!

Can't married people have a mutually fulfilling sexlife?

In my experience, the answer is ".....not until they have a mutually fulfilling love life". To men and women, love means many different things - but to both spouses, love is about so much more than copulation

FHJ

[km]

veggie - during the 'one or two steps' forward parts, I do see your point and cling to it. During the 'one or two steps backwards' parts it is difficult to hold to those things. The perpetual yo-yo action between the two is wearing. I certainly don't pretend to be perfect. One of the things I struggle greatly with, in some ways, is an understanding of my weak spots - and my needs/desires/wants in this area are a weak spot in some ways. And what often frustrates me is that those weaks spots don't need to be danger areas.

I'm not currently pushing for for more at the moment, I am delicately trying to keep things in going forward mode. Thus, I am venting here.


FHJ - she doesn't manifest it all of the time, but she can indeed be vindictive. And yes, hurting people hurt others. I would like her to deal with her hurts (for example, she still carries grudges in our church going back to her youth group membership days - it makes navigating our church life tricky).

love is about so much more than copulation

Yes, indeed it is! But married love is the sole relationship in one's life where the copulation is not only permitted, but encouraged, even commanded. I can permissibly pursue pretty much every interest in my life (at least partially) with others - friends, family, etc. - all but this one. And this one is an utterly exclusive deal. This is my sole vice, my great need, my big danger point. and she is to be my exclusive partner for dealing with it.