Growthtrac Community

[km]

SAM - Point well taken, if he is heavily ensnared in porn, then that is an entirely different (and bigger) problem, and muct be addressed before any other progress will really be possible.

I would alter my suggestion then so as to present the proposition as more hypothetical -
"What if I wanted to invade your backdoor like that?"
"What if I wanted to buy a great big ["marital aide"] and give you a good pounding?"
"Would you be so enthusiastic then?"

[veggiemelt]

km - That was hysterical, thanks for putting it to bluntly, it was really the only way to get the point across.
Rosie, the majority of women will at some point in their lives be asked to do something that is beyond their comfort zone. Depending on how a girl was raised, anything outside of missionary intercourse can seem degrading or disrespectful. There are alot of women who find oral stimulation to be repulsive and degrading. Much of it is a matter of perspective and where the line has been drawn for you from a religious understanding. Are you repulsed by the idea, or are you afraid of it? And why is he asking you for that? Is he having sexual issues that could indicate some type of addiction? Or is it just a phase where he is wanting to explore the unknown territory? In other words, maybe he is just bored with it. That can happen for any number of reasons, that once again may really have nothing to do with sex.

As far as tapping the back door, it could very well be a situation where once is enough. You said that he is looking to feel loved by you. He is looking for you to make a sacrifice to show him love or prove that you love him. That insecurity is deffinately a sign of another problem, however whatever you give or withhold in the bedroom becomes a measure of your love for him in his mind. He could very well be looking for the fact that you are willing to go there, rather then actually really wanting the experience itself. You can make a compromise here. Tell him that you are willing to try it sometime, but that you are not comfortable with the idea right now. Tell him that maybe if you could start to explore that terretory by just manual stimulation, then maybe when you get used to the idea it can go farther at some point.

There is far less risk to manual exploration and most women do not experience any pain or discomfort. It can satisfy the idea, without causing pain or humilation. The willingness to explore shows your love and here is a good chance you will never be asked to take it to the next level.

There has been discussion on this thread about having rights to your spouse's body. There is an element of respect there that must be met in order for your spouse to be entitled free reign over your body. If you trust your spouse and you feel loved by them, then it should never be a problem to allow your husband to do as he wishes with your body. When there is a lack of respect and one partner becomes selfish, they are no longer acting in love and therefore lose the right to your body. I think that is what is being said in the passages written by Paul in his letters to the Corinthians. It is a basis for a loving marriage and in a loving marriage there would be no question that you would willingly share everything with your spouse. However when a marriage is not a true partnership, then we are not really united as God intended and we have a right to love and respect our own bodies out of respect to ourselves and to our Lord. God does not want us to be abused.

This point of fully loving and fully giving and feeling fully loved is something that seems to come and go in marriages, like a wave. When I feel fully loved by my husband, I feel completely comfortable giving him full rights to my body, he can do whatever he likes and I am fully accepting. However, when I do not feel fully loved by him, my first instinct is to protect myself and restrict that right. That is where the fine line comes in - personally, I think that intercourse should always remain in a marriage, even and especially in the rocky spots. However, advanced play is crossing into another zone that requires more love and respect in order for it not to become an act of lust or become completely selfish and degrading. Even oral for a woman can feel really degrading and disgusting if it is done without love. But when there is mutual love and respect, it is a highly pleasurable experience. There have been alot of times in my marriage where I woke up the next morning with regret and I had a hard time looking myself in the mirror. In those times, it had nothing to do with what acts were engaged in, it had to do with the level of respect and how close I felt and how loved I felt by my husband at the time, or even how I felt about him.

You guys were discussing the theory of give and take and how that is confusing> I think what God means by that is that we should always think of our partner and be willing to fully give to them - to the point where we are still showing love and respect for ourselves and our God. In a very close loving relationship where the level of respect and trust is high - there is no boundry in sex because at that level, there is no chance of harm to either person - so God gives us free reign. Anything less then that level of love and respect, has not earned the privilage that God grants to us in setting no boundries, because until we can fully love and respect one another - we need restrictions.

Rosie, when your husband can fully love and respect you and you can do the same for him - then he can have whatever he wants from your body, including anal sex. Until that point comes - only do what makes you feel comfortable and what causes you no disrespect for yourself.

[rosesweet]

veggiemelt, all I have time for now is to say ...wow. You are wise in what you have said. I am so glad I wrote on this forum, I am learning so much from all of you. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you! Hope to write more soon, gotta go.

[veggiemelt]

Rosie,
It is not wisdom, it is experience and learning things the hard way. God has taught me so many things through the struggles of my marriage and the friendship, prayers and support of this forum have given me so much understanding and strength. This is a really loving and accepting community. It is a safe place to ask for help. My life has been blessed so much through this forum, my faith has grown, and my marriage has been strengthened. The men and women of this forum are honest and caring. And the prayer support is amazing. Thanks for joining us here.

[ChristianC]

ARe both you and your Husband fully devoted followers of Christ? This changes how you deal with this situation and marriage dynamics. Have you talked about pornography with your husband? Is he involved with lust? This dramatically effects marriage and sex life! It has NOTHING to do with you but if he is and he claims to be a Christian he needs to repent. There are wonderful resources for this topic ex: Wretched Radio- Slaying the dragon. You need to be open and honest.

[veggiemelt]

Rosie,
I too would be curious if your husband has a relationship with porn and if he is a christian. However, if your husband has been saved, there is absolutely no reason to question whether he is really a christian if he views porn. It is a very common problem among men and women both. Many ministers struggle with this issue and it is becoming more and more previlant in our society.
If your husband is having alot of personal issues or struggles, there is a very good chance that porn has come into the picture for him, because men will seek release of stress and emotional problems through sexual stimuli. It is a literal play ground for Satan as it is so easy to fall into that trap. But remember, it has nothing to do with you what so ever. It is a human weakness that most men and many women struggle to conquer.
You seem to be already having issues of inadequacy, be careful how you approach the subject if you have a suspicion that he may be looking at porn. It could make you feel really bad at a time when you are already having a tough time. Further, as much as honesty is needed in every relationship, this an area where there is humilation and misunderstanding and you could end up driving him away if you approach him in the wrong way. I would strongly suggest that you pray long and hard for yourself and for him before you even think about discussing this subject.
I can tell you from personal experience, it is not a road you want to go down when your relationship is already on the rocks. It is important to form a closer bond of trust and a solid pattern of communication before dealing with such a touchy issue.

Second, many people will automatically assume that when a man pressures for more advanced forms of sexual experiences, that he is being driven by porn. That is simply not true. Men do not have to view porn to think about all sorts of weird and unusual sexual experiences. The male mind is literally a trash bin with or without the aid of pornographic material. Random stuff just comes to mind for no apparent reason and most men have little ability to stop the thought process from occuring. What they can do however, is learn to push the thoughts aside and not linger on them. But that is a long process of retraining their mind and it requires a faithful commitment and prayer. What goes through a man's mind and how he learns to deal with it, is between him and God. If your husband is having sexual issues, then you should be supporting his faith and encouraging him to get involved with a men's bible study or other christian men's social network. Without you even approaching the subject of lust or porn, directing him to a place where those issues will be addressed with other men, is really a better way to handle those issues. If you try to get involved yourself, you will most likely end up getting hurt and we as women have a difficult time understanding the sewage in the male mind. And we have a tendency to take it personally when it has literally nothing to do with us personally. If you attend a church, talking to your paster about a social network for your husband might be a good place to start. maybe he would even invite him and then your husband would feel no pressure from you.
Third, God has as I said before, placed no boundaries on the marital bed, except for boundaries of morality - no other people, etc. What you do there with one another and anything that is a part of your bodies is between you and your husband. Variety is important to men and it is permissable and encouraged by God. Do not ever let anyone make you believe that your husband is unusual just because he wants to have new experiences with you. All that matters here is that it is done with love and respect. And you should feel glad to comply and enjoy yourself as well to the point that you feel loved and respected. Your husband is not weird for asking for anal or oral sex. That is pretty normal. Think about it - the penis is made to be inserted into an open cavity of a female. You have two other open cavities in your body, don't you think it is only natural that he might be curious about going there? It seems pretty logical to me. I agree with Sam as far as the dangers of anal sex. It does pose alot of health risks and doesn't really seem like something that would be too comfortable. However, remember that for a man, anal stimulation can be pleasurable because their prostate gland is up there. In a woman, there is no pleasure spot in the back door. Still, it is understandable that there could be a certain curioslity there and it is not an idea that would have to come from watching porn.

Rosie, I am praying for you and I can personally relate to much of your situation. I also know that I learned a few things the hard way. And one of the worst mistakes I made was in trying to confront my husband and work through his issues with porn. It was just not the place for me to be in. My marriage would have started to heal alot sooner if I had taken the time to pray more and understand more before I addressed that issue. Listen to God and let him help you to understand before you start trying to handle things on your own. You are in my prayers.

[rosesweet]

veggiemelt,
My husband is a christian and in our talking about porn,like most men he has seen porn,he said he does not see the draw. I have been married before& my ex was into porn, I knew there was something going on then(I new it inside), I don't feel that now. I actully in some ways would call him a prud. I am the opposite. I have needed to encourage him to ask for things, he has freed up a lot ,as you can tell from my posts. In thinking about that may be part of what is going on, he finally feels he can open up & ask for things he's most likely thought about for years. The problem for me has not been so much in the asking as in the response when I explained why I didn't want to go there. I felt like he was trying to guilt me into doing it.

I must say we are working on trying to communicate better, we have both failed in that area. One big problem we are having is he stuggles with my past. I was not a christian until in my mid 20's & not in a christian home growing up ( no moral standards at all) the example I saw was NOT good. I did things I am not proud of & thank the Lord I know I am forgiven! The thing is my hubby can't let go of it. You know what, we just plain have some major issues going. We need to get into see a marriage counslor, trying to find a good christian one in our area. Gotta go.

[km]

Is he having problems with you not being willing to do things - with him now - that you did with other partners in the past?

That is something men often have truely major problems with. I think there is some validity to that issue on their part. You should be very freely sharing yourself with your husband. If you cut him off from things you did with others, he feels doubly rejected and put down.

If this is the case, you might want to rethink why you won't do those things any longer (you have great freedom in marital activities).

[rosesweet]

km,
Someone tried to do the anal sex thing without my permission & I stopped him, it was not pleasent. My husband asked me about whether I had done it before, I told him what happened, he feels I am not being honest & that I'm saying that so I don't have to do it with him. He has been very decieved by the women in his past and trust is a big issue. We have been married for less than 1 yr. & are trying to get thru a lot of pretty big issues, I guess I (& he) need to be more patient & understanding with each other. As far as me not doing things with him that I've done with others,I have done more with him than anyone else. I've shared that when he asked, he still struggles with it. Any suggestion? I know he likes that i am attractive, he says I have that "thing" about me that men like (he likes that ) but I know it adds to his insecurity. I don't flirt, not something anyone should do when married, and he agrees that I don't, so like with other things I am at a loss. If you(men reading this) could give me insight as to what I could do please let me know. I think we are both pretty confused right now.

I again want to thank all for your input, it is very appreciated!

[km]

That you aren't dealing with the "she did more for the other guys than she'll do for me" issue is good (that is a very difficult one for a lot of guys to get past). You might look into some of Shannon Ethridge's books (she writes well, and is an experienced woman who married a virgin).

[km]

It would seem to me that some mariage building exercises to build trust and open communication might do as much (or more) good than anything else. With a dgree of trust and ability to openly communicate, I would think that much of the problem would be lessened.

[rosesweet]

he does think ive given more to others because of the trust thing.It is just hard.

[rosesweet]

He says he thinks I'm saving things I've done in the past with someone else to have a special memory of that person to keep just of them. I don't even get that kind of thinking, what is past is past, it is over, I moved on & the Lord had been my focus for over 3 yrs. of being single. I had come to the point of being content being on my own & thought if one day God brings someone in my life, good,if not that was good too. 6mos. later enters my now husband. We both believe the Lord brought us together. We just need to get out of His way & let Him work in our lives, easy to say,hard to do. We both have many issues from our pasts that are creating many problems. Me, military connected PTSD & failed & abusive relationships. My husband undiognosed PTSD & women that hurt him deeply. So we came together bringing a whole lot of baggage with us. I am & have been in counseling for some time at the VA, which has helped very much. Hubby has gone to get help only when life was overwhelming him. We just need much prayer & help.

Time to go, God bless.

[SAM]

Glad to hear you are seeking help. I would strongly encourage your husband to do so too - on a regular basis. And, when your counselors feel you are ready, come together for couples counseling. This is going to be a long term commitment - not an occasional 'as we need it' commitment.

He says he thinks I'm saving things I've done in the past with someone else to have a special memory of that person to just keep of them. I don't even get that kind of thinking, what is past is past.

There is no way to 'get' this kind of thinking. It is twisted into so many knots... it's not rational. It's as though this type of thinking is being thrown out against the wall to see if it will stick - to get some kind of twisted and justified response. No wonder this is creating problems with emotional and physical distance between you.

This would be a great verse to share with your husband. Have it displayed in a prominent place in your home where it can be easily seen and reflected upon every day.

1 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any person is [ingrafted] in Christ (the Messiah) he is a new creation (a new creature altogether); the old [previous moral and spiritual condition] has passed away. Behold, the fresh and new has come!

[rosesweet]

HI All, I've been very busy & not written here. I have been to my counselor @ VA & they say my hubby can go in for counsel also,great first step because he is willing to go. Things have been better in some areas , worse in others. I know I need to be patient but it is very hard sometimes. One thing that has become a problem is that I would like to have sex more often and I need to find a way to express that without hurting his ego. Not easy with a man that is so insecure. Any suggestions would be appreciated. I may just have to live with it. Can be very frustrating tho. Thanks to all & God bless!