Growthtrac Community

[veggiemelt]

rd - You are correct absolutely in that we are to first fill our needs through our relationship with Christ. But here is what I find for many of us to be a struggle in marriage. As an individual, we all have certain needs, without another person in your life, you meet those needs primarily yourself, food, shelter, whatnot - emotionally as an individual we also have needs, we find ways to have a fulfilling life and obviously our faith plays a huge part in that and whether we fill our lives with materialism and quick fixes, or things that are more lasting and spiritually fulfilling. We can do the same in marriage to a certain extent. However, when we unite in marriage - we are asked to give, therefore in what we give there becomes a need to receive from our partner. Something which you do not have as a single person. So, we may first seek to fill ourselves spiritually and through our faith in Christ, there are ultimately spaces or gaps that should be are in fact are meant to be filled by our spouse.

That is really why the "two become one" in marriage is really so true. We give to our partner some of what we would in fact be relying on ourselves for is we were single. You take two people, mix up all of their needs, and draw them out of a hat so to speak. More it is an issue of "male" needs becoming the responsibility of the female, and "female" needs becoming the responsibility of the male. We entrust them to one another and almost switch things sometimes entrusting that to our partner. I believe this was God's design. When this becomes difficult is when one partner gives and the other does not, the giving partner in fact has a void, something similar to a draining effect. Sort of the love bank theory. It is difficult to function on an empty tank. That is where we have to continue to turn to God to help us get through what we are missing, because we have to give to our partner and to ourselves.

I guess what I wonder is, when your partner places a need on to you for which they are not going to provide the fill in return, is there ever a point where we are no longer expected to fill that need at a personal sacrifice. In other words, you know they are not capable of change in that area, so you no longer have the expectation, because the expectation is sort of what creates the hole. I am still not sure of what God is really saying here. I know he is saying turn to him for fulfillment, but then again, sometimes what I think he is saying is that we have to close that hole and let our partner fill us where they can.
But with respect to basic human needs, it seems to be sometimes an almost impossible task.

What you are saying about you wife with respect to her faith is that she is really looking for a miracle as in something really visible, like for her heart and mind to be completely healed without a trace, and that she can't see the little things. Is that correct? Like you believe through God she really could be completely healed, but there is an obstacle that blocks her vision.
That is quite like what I see often times in my own husband, it is more a matter of perspective and a lack of commitment then a real impossible hurdle. Which is kind of what makes it frustrating at times, because I can see what is hidden on the inside, and maybe that is often times what carries me through. That element of hope. But that is also where I fear that I hold expectation and that is in fact what I think continues to keep me from feeling fulfilled by everything that he gives.
I wonder if i no longer had the expectation or element of hope, like it is stopped wanted to see the other side, maybe he would in fact have a better chance at changing, because I would be of more support in other places and much of the tension that arises, might begin to disappear, like the pressure is off, so subconciously, God can heal him in his own time. And he doesn't have to continue to feel resentment to me in the unspoken void that probably gives him a sense of failure because he fights the change.

Does that make any sense? I am trying to hear what God is trying to tell me, but I'm not sure because there is a fine line between enabling or self denial, and willingly offering a sacrifice in faith from the heart.

As far as forgiveness goes, I think once is not enough with some things. I think there are things that you have to continue to forgive over and over again. I think that first time is heavenly forgiveness in an eternal sense, a forgiveness of the heart. You just forgive because it is God's will and command. But,I think from there on out, it becomes human forgivess, which is more a state mind and sense of peace - a part of the healing process. Every time it brings up feelings, you have to forgive a little part of it again. I don't think total forgiveness comes in a one shot deal. Every time it makes you hurt, you have to forgive that it still hurts, it happens one little piece at a time.

[rdsmith3]

What you are saying about you wife with respect to her faith is that she is really looking for a miracle as in something really visible, like for her heart and mind to be completely healed without a trace, and that she can't see the little things. Is that correct? Like you believe through God she really could be completely healed, but there is an obstacle that blocks her vision.
That is quite like what I see often times in my own husband, it is more a matter of perspective and a lack of commitment then a real impossible hurdle. Which is kind of what makes it frustrating at times, because I can see what is hidden on the inside, and maybe that is often times what carries me through. That element of hope. But that is also where I fear that I hold expectation and that is in fact what I think continues to keep me from feeling fulfilled by everything that he gives..

Yes, that is it! She will not commit to anything, except the children who share her DNA. She will not commit to the marriage, to forgiveness, even to our church. We have been going to our present church for over two years, and we like it. We started the process of actually joining it. Now, she is finding reasons to not like it. We postponed the meeting with the pastor. Similarly, we have been in our small group for maybe 1.5 years. A conflict is brewing in our group, and she has already told me that if such-and-such happens, she is leaving. She always needs to know that she has the option of leaving, so she does not have to completely commit. She believes that her mere presence -- in the marriage, in the church building -- is evidence of commitment.

For me, I have faith in God, and I have hope for our marriage. But I cannot honestly say that I have it every day, and I particularly dread the next few months. I still believe that God wants me to keep giving without any expectation of having my needs met in return, but it is a real struggle some days.

But you know, veggiemelt, some times if you sacrifice it is amazing what happens in return. When I first met my wife, I was going to the Catholic church and she was going to a small evangelical church. I prayed a lot about the situation, a whole lot. I thought that our marriage would not be on a good foundation if we were going to two different churches every Sunday, each towing our kids. So I made what I thought was a huge sacrifice and I started going to her church. I had been raised Catholic, and I went to Catholic school for many years, so this was a radical change for me. As a result of that decision, I started reading the Bible and I developed my own personal relationship with Jesus Christ. So God was using my new wife to truly save me. If that is all I get out of this marriage, then so be it, because nothing is more important than that.

[charity1]

veggiemelt,
I know you are talking to rd here, but

I wonder if i no longer had the expectation or element of hope, like it is stopped wanted to see the other side, maybe he would in fact have a better chance at changing, because I would be of more support in other places and much of the tension that arises, might begin to disappear, like the pressure is off, so subconciously, God can heal him in his own time. And he doesn't have to continue to feel resentment to me in the unspoken void that probably gives him a sense of failure because he fights the change.

This is so true. I think the more the other person feels pressured, or the more guilt that is placed on them, the more they resist. My situation is different in that I am forgiving infidelity, but once I was able to stop asking questions, placing blame and guilt, and showing mistrust, my husband was able to stop being defensive and really focus on what he had done. It was like he had this wall up while I was questioning him and "attacking" him, but once I stopped, he crumbled. He was able to face up to his part and became very remorseful and very eager to please. I think our human nature keeps us from giving into pressure. We tend to balk at it. That's why the Bible says we "heap coals of fire" on someone's head when we are kind to them when they have done us wrong. It is very hard to be disrespectful to someone who is respecful to you no matter what you do.

You also made a very good point about forgiveness not being a one time shot. We have a memory that doesn't go away, so we do have to keep forgiving the same offenses over and over in our mind as they keep coming back. We can't do this for our spouse, but we can do it ourselves and be much happier and much more content.

[km]

There is a great deal to the idea of not pushing too much - because resisting force is a natural reaction (and pushing back harder when pressure is increased), but there is the contrary point that with no pressure to change, frequently no change at all will occur (particularly when one is somewhat comfortably ensconsed in one's sin). Knowing the right pressure points and the right amount of pressure is the tricky thing.

[charity1]

km,

but there is the contrary point that with no pressure to change, frequently no change at all will occur (particularly when one is somewhat comfortably ensconsed in one's sin). Knowing the right pressure points and the right amount of pressure is the tricky thing.

That is true. As rdsmith3 has said before, there has to be the right balance of truth and love. So much of the time when we are pushing for change, we get frustrated and either push too hard or completely give up trying. Resentment can build up to the point that both spouses dig in their heels and decide they aren't giving respect until the other one does, and then there is a stalemate. There is no longer room for normal differences of opinion. Any time one spouse expresses an opinion, it is automatically perceived as judgment or criticism. There is no doubt the devil has a hand in promoting that attitude. We have to remember where resentment and anger come from. I really believe if we consistently follow the golden rule of doing unto our spouses as we would have them do unto us and then communicating in truth and love to make ourselves heard and understood, we can eventually make headway. We can be firm but loving at the same time. We can't change another person, but God can change them through our influence. It may not happen overnight, but it can happen. The key is to put the focus on our own behavior and keeping it consistently good so that the influence is good.

[SAM]

Came across a verse this week that I really love -

1 Timothy 4:12

Set an example...in speech, in life, in love, in faith and in purity.

It really made me think.