Growthtrac Community

[veggiemelt]

Hello My Friends at GT.

I am not quite sure how to break into this, but I am struggling. We are currently staying with a relative and working on a project here away from home. It has been over a month now. I think God has a plan in all of this, but I am not entirely sure what it is or how to deal with it. I am not going to go into all of the details, but basically, some of this situation is good and some of it is just really hard.

One of the things that is difficult here is finding space or time alone. Before, at home, my husband and I were pretty much always together and had very little interaction with other people as we work together and didn't have much of a social circle. Now, there is constantly someone around and though we still work together and spend a lot of time in the same location, there is little time to talk, especially in a relaxed atmosphere where no one else is within ear shot. We have done a lot of fun things here at night and on the weekends, but we have only had one outing together without a relative coming along. Also, my husband has found a guy friend whom he seems to get along with really well. He has not had a real friend in a long time and I am happy for him, but at the same time he seems to be able to make time and plans with his friend, but can't seem to do the same for just us. I am often left at his sister's house either alone or with her and ever though I do like her very much, our interests are very different so it feels awkward.

Basically, even though there is always someone around, I feel very lonely and often feel like a third wheel to my husband and his sister. When we go places, I even have to ride in the back seat, by myself. She likes to take these long car rides and show us around. So they sit up front and talk and I feel like a kid riding along in the back. As I am writing this, I am thinking how silly this seems and that it shouldn't really matter. But I am very out of my element here. Living in another females home is difficult enough in itself. Add to that that my sister in law is pretty controlling, much like my husband in many ways. And she demands a lot of attention (she is a very young widow) and is enjoying having a man in the house to do things for her. So, I have tried to remember that, but this is kind of straining my relationship in a way that we have not really experienced before and I am just kind of at a loss as to how to deal with it. All of it is kind of making me very introverted - not my usual personality. I don't quite feel like myself and I am not sure what is the right thing to do.

Anyway, I dont really know what I am looking for, maybe I just needed to say it to someone. I hope you are all doing well. You are always in my prayers. Take Care, Veggiemelt

[km]

Veggie - hang in there! it does indeed sound disconcerting and offputting, but that may just be a way to open you to some changes to go with the next steps in your life. does this mean you have hang time to pick back up with your participation here? ah, perhaps that's wishful thinking on our parts.

we are with you in spirit and praying for you.

[SAM]

Keeping you and your marriage in prayer.

Change and new surroundings is a hard thing for anyone to adapt to. Ask God at the beginning of each day - "Lord, what do you want me to see in today? How do you want to grow me today?"

Also, simply ask your husband for a weekly date night - alone. Be it only for a cup of coffee or an ice cream cone. Find a way to steal him away without a relative tagging along. And, you may surprise the family with a, "We're going on a date night together!"

[veggiemelt]

km, Thanks for the upbeat support. You are probably right about it helping me grow for the next phase.

Sam, date nights are a good idea in every marriage, but have never quite worked for mine. My husband does not really think like that and when he does, it seems to be lacking in something. Although he is a great guy, he doesn't really know how to treat me like a girl most of the time so I always end up wishing for or even hoping or looking for something from him that doesn't ever happen. Most of the time it just becomes a set up for me to be reminded of the relationship that I will never have. Even the situation I am living in now is sort of opening my eyes to the fact that I should be thankful that I have a person whom I love, respect and admire to spend my life with. That he is a blessing to me and that I would rather spend my life with my best friend at my side every day, then to be alone like my sister-in-law.

I have always had a difficult time accepting that my marriage is more of a deep friendship then a passionate romance and it has always been a weak spot in my heart that he does not love me in the way that I wish he did. I always seem to look for a hint of it or a sign of something more and that hope that I hold is often what breaks my heart and makes me turn cold and resentful. But in reality, he has done nothing wrong. He has not mis treated me in any way and he is not trying to intentionally hurt me. He just does not have strong romantic feelings for me and is content and happy with the bond of friendship that we share. He does not want or need more and it in fact makes him feel very bad that he doesn't feel more because he knows that I want that. I have struggled with this for a long time and often pondered the thought of leaving. Not because I don't love him, but because we do not have the same type of love for one another. But seeing my sister-in-law alone every day and seeing how much even after seven years that she misses her husband's company and companionship and just having him in the same room. I am growing to realize that I should feel blessed by what I do have as I know that what I do have in most of my marriage is rare and the bond is strong.

I think God may be trying to show me that though I may never know what it feels like to have a man long for and love me as a woman - I have the undying faith and trust of a life long friend. I know that if I continue to want more there may come a point where he may leave my bed because it is just something that he cannot and does not feel for me. But I know that no matter what, he will never leave my side and I am beginning to realize that maybe that is where true faithfulness and committment lie.

I have always looked for him to prove faithfulness to me by the bounds of sexual commitment, physical faithfulness as it has been my understanding of the absolute definition of the bounds of marriage. I have experienced what I see and feel as betrayal sexually and therefore felt a lack of commitment in my marriage. He struggles, but tries even now to remain morally faithful to me, but it is getting easier for me to understand why. But he has never, ever betrayed me as a friend and maybe that in reality has more value and more honor. I know that I am not the woman he wants to have sex with, but I am the woman he wants to sleep next to and hold in his arms, I am the woman he wants to laugh with and talk to and maybe that is what true love really is.

I used to pray that God would help my husband to overcome his sexual struggles so that he could commit to me. But that was really entirely selfish because I thought that it would get me the love that I so long for. But even in controlling his thoughts and actions, his desire for me has not grown and that is I guess the true test that it just isn't there. So the lesson has come down to me accepting what I will never have and embracing the beauty and blessing of what I do have. - A deep, profound, pure and true love and an unbreakable commitment and trust in friendship. I have true love, it is just not what I thought it should look like. But in reality, I think God is trying to show me that it is in many ways more beautiful and rare.

[SAM]

Perhaps, this is the reason for your journey and the place you are spending time at right now?

But seeing my sister-in-law alone every day and seeing how much even after seven years that she misses her husband's company and companionship and just having him in the same room. I am growing to realize that I should feel blessed by what I do have as I know that what I do have in most of my marriage is rare and the bond is strong.

So you have an opportunity for a itsy-bitsy-teeny-tiny bit of time alone... can you not suggest coffee or an ice cream cone without a relative tagging along? With no date night expectation? Just for the sake of getting out alone for 1/2 hour?

The intense passionate love that you speak about is what people seek and seldom find. It may be there in the beginning of a relationship, but hormones do not let it last forever. Usually by the sixth month the feelings of euphoria start fading and settling into a level of comfort. Unfortunately, way too may continue to seek the intense passion desire mode on a perpetual basis that makes them leap from one relationship to another. It eventually fades, no matter who one chooses to have sex with.

As time has gone on in my marriage, I believe we have settled into that deeply committed passionate friendship. Although, the sexual chemistry is still there, it is different than when we were first married and dating. However, to be truthful, I would not want to go back to those days even if a magic genie wanted to grant me a spare wish. There were too many other parts of our relationship that were lacking and underdeveloped that created so much crazy tension and arguments. I love the place where we are at now, with that deep trusting friendship. My best friend.

A deep, profound, pure and true love and an unbreakable commitment and trust in friendship.

This is what was missing in my first 15 years of marriage. I am so grateful that God has given this to our marriage now. And, if by some chance he took away the ability to have intercourse, I would be happy with what remains.

[km]

SAM - I like the place you describe as where you're at now.

Oddly, what I tend to dwell on more and more often is that, having past 50, my days of having intercourse are increasingly numbered/limited (particularly with the atrophy of ability to come from not using the equipment often). I fear that when it is no longer an option, I will grow to detest her for having denied me the chance to experience it when it was possible.

[SAM]

I'm 52 and my husband is 54 - things are definitely changing when it comes to how the body want to function or not function.

[veggiemelt]

"This is what was missing in my first 15 years of marriage. I am so grateful that God has given this to our marriage now. And, if by some chance he took away the ability to have intercourse, I would be happy with what remains."

I understand what you are saying Sam, but the key words here would be "ability to have intercourse". It is not a loss of ability or even so much a lack thereof. And it is not so much a lack of a passionate love affair that is normally only common in the early stages. It is in fact more, much more and in a way that I cannot really explain. There are literally hundreds of articles on Christian web sites with regard to bringing back the fire and I in fact have tried most of them to no avail. We have had conversation after conversation on the subject but his answer is always that he is sorry and he doesn't know why, but he does not have those feelings for me so there is no fire and there never will be and in fact he reminds me that whatever I thought was there somewhere was purely an act to try to make me happy. This is the pain that I bear and the heartbreak that reminds me that for over twenty years what I lived was really a lie. I kind of always knew on the inside, but hearing it over and over again just sets it in stone. I fought it, lived in denial, and held on to hope in the midst of knowing and hearing the truth. I wanted to believe something would change, that there would be a hint of something more. But there is none and I suppose what saddens me at this point in my life is that I don't even have a memory to hang on to or to remember something real, because what I remember was a lie and I was probably a fool for believing it. There are so many times when I wish I did not know the truth, but I do and it will never change. I suppose the phase that I have been through in the past year or so was like morning a loss, but a loss for something I never really had. And now is a time for moving into acceptance and appreciation for what I do and have always had in the friendship. I have spent the past few years trying to understand God's plan for a physical relationship and how it applies to a marriage and I have tried to mold my thoughts and my marriage to fit what I believed to be God's plan. And though the ideals of God's plan still apply - fidelity to my spouse - I no longer feel the same about what sex is in my marriage. I am starting to see it more as an option then a responsibility or even a privilage as I had always believed. Its importance and my desire and need to feel that connection is changing from an act of love to just an act no different then anything else we do together. It is lowering on my priority list and as of now rates somewhere around the same level as sharing a bowl of ice cream or going on a walk. I am slowly learning to adapt to my husband's way of thinking and my physical desire for him is fading as I am coming to terms with this acceptance. I don't even think about how long it has been anymore, I only think about how long it has been since we were alone together doing anything. So I guess, though the ability for intimacy remains for both of us, other things are beginning to surpass the thrill of it and maybe even the feeling of it. i guess in a way it makes me sad because I still feel a sense of loss, but I feel more fulfilled in other ways so I am no longer trying to find a way to revive the interest in either of us. I have always felt a sense of sorry for people who live in sexless marriages, I always thought it was sad and I never thought that would be me. But I think now that I would rather real experiences that are fulfilling for both of us, real moments that are not fake or forced and fun times where I don't feel bad when it is over. Maybe that is what people in sexless marriages share, and if it is, then that isn't really so sad. In truth, most people no matter how passionate or romantic their marriage is, struggle with sexual issues and most marriages at one time or another are strained by it. So why do we try to hard to fix it, to make it better, to talk about it and to over emphasize it? I think I am honestly happier and more secure and confident in myself and my relationship without that kind of pressure or expectation. And I know that I am more at ease without the idea ever entering my mind. And the really weird thing is, I don't even notice or care anymore if he takes a glance at another female. I am not worried about getting or keeping his attention anymore, so it just doesn't even hurt my feelings. Whatever the result may be, I think that God is allowing me to see and appreciate that what I have now is better then whatever I was looking or hoping for.

[veggiemelt]

km, That sort of resentment as in how many years do we have left is much of what has driven me to try to find or force more. I am only 45, but I did enter menopause over 5 years ago, so my days are numbered as well and I feel that sense of loss.

[SAM]

Is it an all or nothing proposition? In other words, if it can't be intercourse, are all other forms of intimacy thrown completely out the window? No touching - no kissing?

I ask because we went through a period of several years (in my early 30's) where we could not have intercourse due to several major surgeries I had and complications from the surgery. We found other ways to be intimate.

[veggiemelt]

No, there is a lot of other types of affection and physical contact. It is the "flavor" behind it that is different. And sex is not out of the question, it happens, but it is mearly because he is horny and I happen to me in the room and the only choice where another actual female in the flesh is concerned. But trust me, he would rather it be a different female most of the time. But really, I don't even care anymore. I am not fighting it or denying it any more. It is what it is plain and simple and there is no changing it. It isn't my fault, but here isn't anything I can do about it either. So what I am really doing is nothing different except that I have stopped wishing for something different. And please don't suggest anything in terms of seduction or creating interest as that is hearbreaking as well as you cannot seduce someone who has no interest in you as a female. It just hurts my feelings so I don't even think about going there any more. That is what I am trying to say, I have accepted it for what it is and am moving on and leaving any thoughts or hopes behind me. I held on for a long time, but I am done and it is over and there is no going back and I pray that it will be a peaceful surrender and that I will not regret it or resent it.

[veggiemelt]

Sam and Km, thanks for your words of support today. I really and truly needed that and a place to speak as well. I had some time on my hands to think and reflect today on your words as well as mine and though I feel I needed to let go of some of that and say it out loud, in speaking (writing) the words I feel of a sense of something that I had thought was put to rest in me beginning to rise in a negative fashion and I feel the resentment that KM speaks of beginning to flair.

I think God has intended my time here to be one of healing and growth, a time of rebirth in my own heart and faith and in my marriage. I cannot let the good that has come of it become spoiled by re-opening old wounds. My life and my future lie in God's hands and I have to step back once again and let him work without trying to interfere. Trying to foresee or even understand God's plan has hindered and chained both me and my marriage far too many times in the past, I do not want to make the same mistake again.

I know that no matter what I may believe by experience or fear by disappointment, the truth lies in complete and blind faith in my Lord and my burdens and fears are better off placed completely in his hands. Thank you again for your friendship and support. You are in my thoughts and prayers. All my love, Veggiemelt

[SAM]

Waiting for full understanding of the reason and purpose for this place is the hardest thing of all. To not have growing resentment build within you, is going to be a moment by moment journey. Praying...

[km]

veggie (and SAM) - I understand where you're at, to some degree at least. I've struggled the whole marriage to figure her out. She didn't see the marriage relationship like I saw it. I came to find (similar to your discovery, I think) that she doesn't see it the way most other women see it either - so all of those marriage books and all are useless (they're coaching me to better play a game that just isn't the same game she's playing). Look ahead, I face the fear that should my erectile function falter, its over (SAM noted alternative expressions of intimacy as something they had to make use of, but we don't have any aternatives due to her excessively restrictive outlook on what she considers non-gross/non-disgusting).

I wish I could explain how to trigger what you want/need from him. But he sounds like something of an outlier that isn't going to respond to the common advice (and I don't know him to even begin to guess his quirks). Likewise, I don't see a lot of the advice here working for me, because she isn't going to respond in a normal fashion to the things I do.

Outside of the disrespectful behavior and sexual disfunction (which I think are basic flaws showing - rather than calculated, deliberate behavior) is is an exemplary wife, and a good, loyal companion. If those 2 flaws were corrected, she'd be nearly perfect. But she comes with those flaws as part and parcel of who she is. I know I am not perfect either (but I think my flaws are a bit more mainstream male flaws, operating in a more conventionally predictable fashion).

I pray that you find some peace with your situation, so as to learn to appreciate the brand of love he is capable of ather than pining for the mor normal variety (I pray that God gives him a whack with the "wake the hell up stick" too - which would be even better).
K

[charity1]

Veggiemelt,
It sounds like God may be answering your prayers by putting you in a setting where you can more appreciate your husband for his positive qualities. In reading your posts, I believe more than ever that your husband has some deep, dark secrets in his past that affect him now. I may be totally off base, but it sure sounds that way to me. I also get the feeling that he loves you deeply but because of his past can't process that love in the way you want him to. I have a hard time buying that the past 20 years were a lie. It sounds to me like maybe he is trying to convince you he doesn't have any romantic feelings for you because he feels inadequate. He doesn't want you to pressure him or have any expectations of him, that way he can call the shots in the moments he feels up to the challenge. Who knows, it could be that once you stop having expectations and aren't pressuring him in any way that nature may be able to take it's course. Maybe he can relax and feel accepted for who he is which may help life in general. Relieving stress can work wonders - kind of like when a couple wants a baby so badly, but when they stop anticipating it happening, it finally does. In any event, you are right, God is in your future, and He knows what lies ahead. He will be there for you no matter what the circumstances.

You are kind of in the same boat I am. We can choose to mourn over what Satan has stolen from us, or we can choose to count the blessings God has given us. I have found that Paul's theory of learning to be content in whatever state we find ourselves is the best course of action. It's so easy to wallow in the negative and miss out on the positive. A positive attitude makes life so much more bearable, but that is definitely not always easy. It takes lots of prayer and study. I am praying for you.