Indifference

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Re: Indifference

Postby SAM » Fri Aug 21, 2009 4:45 pm

This level of frustration and emotional distance leaves you vulnerable on so many levels. I am scared for you. If a man were to come into your life and pay attention to you and offer kind words of affirmation for your skills or beauty, I fear your heart would be lost. No one is immune to attack from the enemy, and the enemy is keenly aware of where you are vulnerable.

Ask yourself if you are having the following feelings besides this one particular issue -

You've lost interest in each other.
You feel bored with each other.
There's a lack of communication; one or both of you chooses not to listen.
You seem to have little in common.
You've thought of divorce.
You no longer compromise, there's a lack of flexibility.
You find yourself making family decisions alone.
You have no desire for physical touch of any kind.
Your relationship with other people are more intimate that your relationship with your spouse.
You are putting your individual interests or hobbies before the good of the marriage.
You avoid each other.
One or both of you is irritable or sarcastic.
You find yourself having increased health problems - headaches, back pain, sleeplessness, recurring colds, and emotional ups and downs.


If you have been in counseling, and things improve for a time, then go back to the same old ways - that is very telling. It means he is capable of changing but chooses not to make it a permanent change. What do you think it would take to get through to him? A new counselor? A marriage intensives program?

But if I try to share something from my heart, he often won't even reply.


No reply? Dead silence... a blank stare... looking at the ceiling? Why does he get angry when you bring this topic up?

What is his response when you tell him it would mean the world to you for him to take interest in your life, activities, friends, etc.?
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Re: Indifference

Postby charity1 » Fri Aug 21, 2009 5:24 pm

Emily,
I can relate to what you are saying. I can tell that most of the time when I am talking about my day, my husband's eyes are glazed over, and he isn't listening to a word I say. Ironically my husband had an affair and then told me how easy the OW was to talk to. I thought that was pretty ironic. I figured she must have talked about him constantly if he was actually listening. :? After questioning him quite a bit about that time in his life, I could tell he hadn't really listened to her either. When I would ask specific questions about some personal things in her life (I knew her too), he didn't even know the answers. That was a little bit of comfort. It wasn't that he thought that much of her, he just liked the way she made him feel about himself, and he acknowledges that. He tries a lot harder to focus on what I am saying now that we are rebuilding our marriage, but I still catch him looking like he couldn't care less what I am saying. The fact that your husband has been willing to go to counseling says that he must love you a lot and wants to be interested in what you are saying, it's just that guys don't normally like to chat as much as we women do. A lot of details bore them. Most men just want you to make your point and cut out the chatter. You can't change your husband, but you can change the way you relate to him. The more you focus on the fact that you feel like he is self-absorbed, the more it is going to eat at you and cause resentment. Whenever you start getting upset or resentful about it, just tell yourself this has never bothered you before. He is the same man you married, so you just need to accept him for the way he is. He sounds like a good father, and you don't mention any other horrible husband habits he has, so try to focus on his good qualities, and talk when you want to talk. He probably hears more than he acts like he does.
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Re: Indifference

Postby Emily » Fri Aug 21, 2009 5:52 pm

Good stuff Charity1 - that's what I'm working on.... I soooo do not want to be bitter and resentful. I'm just not sure how to deal with the loneliness and hurt feelings...

Sam, here's an example:This summer, I found a lump in my breast and had to have a biopsy. My mom had breast cancer two years ago, so I was pretty nervous, scared about the whole thing. The week before the biopsy, he never asked me how I was doing. I mentioned that it would be nice if he did. He said, Oh, okay, like it never occurred to him. One night I was upset and began crying - the fear just sort of got to me that night. I came into the kitchen to get something to eat and he saw I had been crying. He said, "Are you upset?" I said yes, and he looked at me and went back to sit and watch TV with the kids.

The morning, I was to receive news on the biopsy I told him I had had a dream the night before that the nurse had called and said there was no cancer. We were in the bathroom getting ready for the day. He said nothing. Silence. I waited... five minutes, ten minutes. I finished getting ready and left the room. He never replied to my statement.

Praise Jesus I got good news. I texted him and then called - he said, that's great, but I've got to go to a meeting. It was sad. Thankfully, I had a lot of friends calling me texting me, telling me they loved me and were happy for me. It made me realize... this lack of empathy is NOT normal, it is NOT okay. I can't really do anything about it ultimately, but I felt the love of God through my friends and pastor that was just missing from my husband.

I've been tempted to have an affair. I'm too scared. I really don't want to turn my life into lying and adultery which is what would have to happen. I don't have the guts for that!
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Re: Indifference

Postby FaithHopeJoy » Fri Aug 21, 2009 5:53 pm

Emily

As I read through your posts, the thing that stands out is that you see your husband as the one who needs to change. Maybe that's true - but it's also true that the only one you can change is yourself :wink: If the lack of connection and closeness is 80% 'his fault' and 20% 'your fault', you have the option to make the situation 20% better (even if he doesn't change!) Something else to think about.....if we convince ourselves that our spouses have bad habits, then we will view every move they make through that 'lens'. When we change our perspective and decide to look hard for the positive instead, it's amazing how much our spouses improve :lol:

You might find it helpful to read Different by Design: God's Master Plan for Harmony Between Men and Women in Marriage.

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Re: Indifference

Postby km » Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:25 pm

SAM - That is a really scarry list.
I see one or the other or both of us with just about all of thoe items.
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Re: Indifference

Postby Emily » Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:37 pm

faithhopejoy - There's plenty to improve in me for sure, but I think the thing in this situation that I am realizing is... this is something that is about him. There is nothing more I can do to be "more loveable" or "more submissive" that will make him an empathetic person. Not me reading another book or taking the blame for not being good enough yet again.

That said, I do really like what you said about focusing on the positive. I really want to do that. However, for the purpose of this forum, I focused on the problem (my loneliness and hurt feelings) I had questions about and so I had to do a little exposition about the problem to explain.

Km - my heart hurts for you. How do you deal with loneliness?
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Re: Indifference

Postby Emily » Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:54 pm

Oh and Sam, I'm not sure what will get through to him. I've been really clear about what I need. I'm always super careful to just gently ask for what I want... ie, time, conversation, interest, etc. without coming across negative or whatever.... you know, use the "I" statements, just say how you feel, ask for what you need... be non threatening. Have lots of sex.... this list goes on and on. I've done my best. Im out of ideas.

And then, once in a while I lose it and cry or say something mean. And he tells me he is not going to deal with my anger and that I'm ruining the night, weekend, whatever (which I am). And I get the silent treatment for days.

I'm tired
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Re: Indifference

Postby km » Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:02 pm

You might need to move out for a bit - to get his attention.
It is possible that there is nothing you can do - he may not be capable of what you need.

And I don't handle the lonliness very well (as one might well gather from my series of posts and comments here).
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Re: Indifference

Postby Emily » Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:07 pm

I think you're right. I hope you and your husband can rebuild your marriage and you guys will fall in love all over again.... may you guys be blessed and the past erased.

Bottom line - life is precious, beautiful, sometimes hard, there's always something to laugh about and enjoy. Jesus is King

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Re: Indifference

Postby Emily » Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:08 pm

loneliness sucks! :)
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Re: Indifference

Postby Emily » Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:12 pm

Whoops Km - I was getting you and charity1 mixed up.... so I was replying to you, thinking about Charity1's marriage situation. Sorry about that.....

But I thank you for your encouraging comments....
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Re: Indifference

Postby dwk » Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:08 pm

Those of us with "disconnected" spouses have a tough time for sure. We SO have to realize that only our relationship with God thru Jesus is designed to meet all our needs. I will pray that you and your husband will find a way to connect, and that he will have a desire to connect.
Live for the line, not the dot!
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Re: Indifference

Postby charity1 » Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:27 am

Emily,
I know you are waiting on a response from Sam, but while you are waiting, why don't you sit your husband down and explain to him just how much the indifference about the biopsy results hurt you. If there is anything I've learned from my marriage crisis is that you have to communicate. I understand you are saying that is the whole problem, you don't communicate, but there is a difference between chatting and communicating. When there is a serious problem, you need to sit him down without distractions and explain to him what is bothering you. No matter what is or isn't going on in your marriage, another man is not an option. You have made a covenant before God to love, honor and cherish your husband for as long as you live. Getting involved with someone else would be the worst mistake you could ever make in your life. Take my word on this one. There is no going back and undoing it. The guilt, shame and embarrassment would be with you for the rest of your life. I know your husband is hurting you, but don't give up until you get through to him. You need to make yourself heard and understood. Whenever he hurts you, don't just walk away hurt and let the resentment build. Call him out on it. That doesn't mean nag him, that means when you feel like you have a legitimate complaint, such as the biopsy event, say so.

One thing you have to remember, Emily, is that your husband will never be like one of your female friends. I think that is a mistake a lot of wives make. Because we want our husband to be our best friend, we think they ought to relate to us like our female friends do, but they aren't wired that way, and if we keep expecting them to, we will only be disappointed and resentful. That's why FHJ and I are trying to tell you to focus on your husband's positive traits. I definitely wouldn't let the biopsy event pass without comment though. He needs to be called out on that one. Obviously don't rant and rave and put him on the defensive, but sit him down and ask him calmly if he was concerned at all when you were waiting on the biopsy results. See what he has to say for himself. The worst thing you can do is hold all of this in and keep building resentment.
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Re: Indifference

Postby SAM » Sat Aug 22, 2009 10:48 am

The indifference is really hard... I've also been in this place with my husband. When we have kids and 101 things to do throughout the day, communication becomes a fleeting moment. In regard to your biopsy and his reaction to that time in your life, it is difficult for him to understand the depth of your fears. I'm not sure how long ago this was - if recent, then go back to him and explain what his indifference meant. If it has been awhile, it is time to let it go, and no longer bring up the past.

I love my husband dearly, and he does make a concerted effort to understand, but the more I have observed him throughout the years and figured out what works in our marriage, and what doesn't - the following is what works the absolute best.

Find a quiet room, uninterrupted, no kids, not distractions, no TV on - then I take the time to go through my myriad of thoughts and really work at condensing them into 5-10 points. Short, quick, to the point - without all the details. When I do this type of communication, my husband "gets it". If I try to get him to communicate with me based on my style of communication, it seldom works. He doesn't understand my frustration, my moods, my sadness, or my fears, unless it's a face-to-face. He doesn't catch my tone, my inferences, or my hints. I look at him straight in the eye (like any other man would), and I say, "I need to sit here with you until you fully understand what I'm trying to get across." Another tool we use for understanding is repeating what we believe the other person has said. When you do this exercise you'll be amazed by how often you miss the mark. Our response often is, "No, that's not what I meant, or that's not what I'm feeling." I would say 90% of our disagreements are because one of us has misunderstood the other.

When things have been really bad between us, and he's been unwilling to listening, becomes frustrated with me when I try to explain - I write it out. Black and white print and short bullet-pointed concepts (no long running sentences). Not only does it clear my thoughts and really help me clarify things, but once it is in black and white print, it brings equal clarity to my husband. Remember a long rambling letter simply will work. And, if by chance there is a decision to use "you" do this or "you" do that within the letter, blame has been placed on him and he will not listen. Also, avoid being historical. Historical means bringing up the past five to ten years of your relationship, or even something that bugged you a year ago. It's important to look at things going forward, not backward.

I will make a sweeping generalization here because I've watched other marriages for many years, including my own - if a woman is willing to work on the "male" style of communication, it will change her marriage. Our guys are not wired to adapt to our style, and if a wife wants to continue trying... welcome to frustration. As women, we are much more adaptable creatures. We can fight this change in our style of communication until Jesus comes again, or we can adapt. Adaptation is less frustrating.

KM -
This list is a bit scary. They are the warning signs of marital burnout. The more you recognize the symptoms, the better your chances of improving your marriage and getting the help you need. Unfortunately, many couples do not see the symptoms until it is too late.
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Re: Indifference

Postby FaithHopeJoy » Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:51 am

This is something that is about him. There is nothing more I can do to be "more loveable" or "more submissive" that will make him an empathetic person. Not me reading another book or taking the blame for not being good enough yet again.


Dear Emily, nothing in my previous post was about you 'improving' or 'being good enough' - you seem like a sensitive, thoughtful person who wants her marriage to be the best it can be. What I was focusing on was how you might handle the situation differently, since all the things you have tried so far have not achieved what you hoped for - being cherished and loved in ways you appreciate. The truth is (and I speak from personal experience of trying :wink:), the more you urge your husband to behave in ways that aren't natural to him in order to meet your needs ..... the less likely he is to comply!

When I suggested 'changing', I wasn't saying be more submissive or more available or more loving. I was thinking about changing the pattern of communication. it sounds as though you have been quite open about what you need from your husband, but do you know what he needs from you? Have you asked him? In a sense, you have to become the 'agent of positive change' if you share your life with an uncommunicative spouse.

God bless you

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