Growthtrac Community

[rdsmith3]

SAM

I don't want to sound like everything is my wife's fault, and I don't want to sound like I am debating everything you say, so I hope it does not come across that way.

I have put a lot of effort into changing, including communication. Every once in a while, my wife will admit that. Last Tuesday, she came home from a women's bible study group and complimented me on the fact that I know it is very important for her to be heard. She had mentioned that about me to some other women, and they were impressed, and I guess it made her realize that I have improved in that area. She has also admitted that I am much better at "playing back" what I heard her say before I say what I want to say. I have also improved in showing empathy for someone else's situation.

Change is a continual process, and I have not given up on it. With God's help, I hope to be a better husband and father.

But we get to a point at which my wife has been stuck in a certain way of thinking for maybe 30 years, and change is coming very, very slowly for her. Her view of the world is very centered on how she has been hurt (or "her" kids, which are an extension of her) but she does not seem to realize that she can really hurt other people. Most of all, she seems to forget that God forgives her for the hurts she has done to Him, and so she should forgive others.

[SAM]

I don't feel that everything is a debate between us.

I look at it in this manner - we each have problems and experiences that we have walked through. And, perhaps, the more ideas/suggestions that are thrown out on the table, there may be one that sticks and makes a difference in someone's marriage.

One really good thing is, your wife mentioned your changes to other women. It means she is bragging on you, and in a way appreciates the fact that you are trying - even when she does not want to readily admit it.

[rdsmith3]

SAM

I truly appreciate your help. I am more discouraged than ever, though. We seem to be taking huge steps backwards.

This morning she unloaded on me big time. I won't go into what led up to it, but she basically said to me:

I'm still here in the marriage, and that should be good enough for you right now. I'm trying. I have been in therapy for 20 years. If God chooses not to heal me, then what am I supposed to do? This is the way it is until God decides he wants me to be healed. I don't want to hear about making choices to heal or making choices to forgive. If it were that easy, I would have done it. I have a conscience, and I know what I have done wrong, and you don't need to tell me that I have hurt you, that I need to forgive, etc. I can't be the wife you want me to be, so talk to God about it, not me. If you feel rejected by me, talk to God. If you're unhappy with no sex, talk to God.

I listened to all this on the phone, and more, without interrupting her.

Then the grand finale was, "I hate talking to you. I don't want to be your wife any more." At that point I said, "Now wait a minute ..." She hung up. That is her usual MO -- unload on me and then hang up or walk out of the room.

I guess the next time she asks me to clean a bathroom, I will tell her to talk to God, not me.

[SAM]

I am so sorry to hear that. Sometimes there are steps backward before there are baby steps forward.

If she has continually spent 20 years in therapy and has made very little progress, she has been to the wrong therapists.
She obviously blames God for this. She has not reconciled his goodness and grace. He heals those who have the faith to believe he can heal.

There are two conditions I have been doing some reading on recently -

Learned helplessness (half-hearted tries, never expecting success). It is a giving up response that can generalize to other situations in life where the victim feels their efforts will never make a difference or help them change. This happens to victims of childhood physical, emotional, or verbal abuse.

Also, Perpetual Victim Syndrome. Perpetual victims have an utterly negative outlook on life, they don't expect anything ever to go right, so being a victim has no downside. By wallowing in the passivity and supposed powerlessness, one becomes blind to all opportunities for change. One might call it "self-victimization," but the point is that it is voluntary.

Anyway, new therapies are being developed to help people overcome it.

[rdsmith3]

She could be either or both of those. Some of the stuff she says is an exaggeration. She has not literally been in therapy for 20 years, but she has been in a lot of counseling. She knows what she needs to work on, but somehow does not quite do it. Similarly, she knows she should exercise, but does not quite do it.

Some of the stuff she says is also absurd, but she really believes it. She mentioned angrily that I don't compliment her on the fact that she has not cursed me out in a while. I'm thinking to myself, hmmm, is it less hurtful for her to say, "F you, you ___," or, "I hate talking to you and I don't want to be your wife"?

I'm just venting, I guess, waiting for some more baby steps.

[SAM]

Complimenting her for not cursing you out?
I think saying, "I hate you and don't want to be your wife" is just as damaging. Ouch!

My gosh, shouldn't verbal restraint be standard practice in your interraction with another individual?

[rdsmith3]

To be fair, I think she was trying to say that I have not noticed (enough) that she has made some positive improvements. However, in the heat of the moment, her statement sounded ridiculous to me.

[SAM]

Hi guys -

You've been rather quiet for while. How are things?

I continue to lift you and your marriages up in prayer frequently.

[rdsmith3]

which guy?

We've had our ups and downs. We had a good heart to heart talk this past weekend. My wife continues to be a person who is profoundly hurt by childhood sexual abuse, and I keep learning how damaging this was, and how she has not healed from it. It is the reason for her negative view of men.

I appreciate your prayers. Please pray for healing and peace for her; that she can release those hurts.

[km]

Things have gone downhill (she really blew up at me a couple weekends back). We had our one step forward a while ago, we've now had our 10 steps back. We're going the wrong direction and I don't see much in the way of any prospect for any turn around.

You've made it clear here that I'm exasperatingly clueless. I've made no progress in that regard.

I've been quiet here because I am no longer sure I have anything positive to contribute.

[rdsmith3]

km

Sorry to hear that. Your contributions here are always welcome and helpful.

[SAM]

KM,
Your contributions are more than valuable. You make us think and you make us dialog at a deeper level.

You've made it clear here that I'm exasperatingly clueless.

I am so sorry if I made you feel that way. You are not exasperatingly clueless. I pray I did use those words with you!

We all get stuck in foxholes and can only see the ravine we are sitting in. If we jumped out and looked around us, we might find a different direction to take and win the war, instead of continuing the battle.

Keep working on you. You have come an amazingly log way since your first posts here at GT. I have faith in you.

[km]

SAM - you didn't out and out explicitly say that verbatim. That would be the male way to do say it.

I reread what every one said (like you told me to do) and I thought about the almost 3 decades of my marriage - and it came through loud and clear. I am totally clueless and only getting further from the target of a biblically sound marriage.

I try to give advice or make observations only when I think I know something about a topic and have something to add to what is already there. I now see here that I got nothing.

[SAM]

God asks that one try to set the example in loving the other with Christ's love. It doesn't mean one does this with the purpose and focus of reciprocation. Jesus didn't operate that way.

It has taken my husband and I longer to rebuild some resemblance of a bibically sound marriage, than it did for us to tear it down. Ten years of hell vs 23 years of rebuilding.

Marriage is something that is always a work in progress, even after 33 years together. And, quite honestly, I don't think we will ever fully "arrive" at the perfect biblically sound marriage until the day we stand before our God. The perfect biblically sound marriage was destroyed by a flawed human being's choice in the Garden of Eden, and will not be restored until we are in His presence at the end of our lives or the 2nd coming of Christ.

[km]

SAM - I've tolerated the situation for nearly 30 years, and am still there. I think that shows some degree of lack of tunnel vision focused on the selfish yield. But marriage is a mutual endeavor.

At some point doesn't a lack of mutuality give you some compelling evidence to show that one has failed at crafting a biblically sound marriage?

If the more I try, the further turned we get from the direction we need to be in, doesn't that tell me I don't "get it"?