Growthtrac Community

[veggiemelt]

Anger, resentment, being tired of it, and feeling like he just really doesn't care. Feeling like you are living with a man who puts every thing and every one before you. Feeling like you are on the very bottom of the list. These feelings and the roller coaster range of emotions are all too familiar and it does in deed make a girl feel like just giving up and walking away.

It is not easy to be where you are. When I stood in your shoes, I could did not have the knowledge and ability to understand that I do now. I too wanted to just walk and sometimes run away from it all. And there is nothing worse then turning to another woman for advice or a sympathetic ear and having her seem to side with your husband. You feel cheated and drained and you have many unmet needs. You are starving for what he is not giving to you and someone is telling you to give him the rest of the food on your plate. It is not what you want to hear and I remember it all too well.

I remember turning to other women and getting a similar response, just try to be patient he is under a lot of stress. But what I needed was to have someone tell me that my husband was a jerk and he needed to pull his head out of his lower region and start holding up his end of the bargain. Well, I did in fact find that person. A sympathetic ear who gave me a place to bear my soul and validated my feelings. Unfortunately it was a male - who was able to give me support and friendship in a way that my female friends could not. I found comfort in his friendship and companionship and without any intentional sin - I began to form an emotional attachment that was later very difficult to break and worse, the relationship was just one more dagger through my husbands broken ego. It was absolutely the worst thing I could have ever done to either of us and one that I continue to wish I could eternally erase.

Honey I know you need to hear someone tell you that he is a lazy jerk and the you deserve better. And the truth is - right now it is probably true. And in all reality, he probably does in fact deserve to have you leave him and never look back. So - if you can look him straight in the eye and see that he is not struggling and torn up inside that he cannot give you the live that he knows that you deserve - then do it. Pack your bags and go, set yourself free. But if there is even a hint in his eye that he wants and needs to give you more then he believes that he can - then i pray that you will please, please give it a chance. Show him the compassion you hold in your heart.

[FaithHopeJoy]

Esgee, dear sister

I understand the condition of your heart – and I truly empathise with your situation. I have been in the place that you find yourself now. The emotion of feeling unloved, unwanted and neglected by your spouse is extremely painful. The rejection is crushing. The lack of physical closeness and intimacy can be overwhelming – to the extent that you can’t stop thinking how much you miss being caressed. No amount of initiating on my part - flirting, cuddling, romancing - has made my husband desire any sexual intimacy for the last three years. That is why I had to give the situation to God. I began to realise that nothing I could do would change my husband. Only God, in His time and for His purposes, can change my husband. It isn’t going to work for me to (a) live my life being resentful; (b) put my life on hold until the situation improves or (c) get even by being unfaithful with someone else to satisfy my own unmet needs. Nor does it help to know that many other middle-aged men are still virile, potent and sexually active – if your own husband isn’t!

Veggiemelt wrote so eloquently (and with remarkable insight) about what makes a man react to his wife in the ways you described. At first, I felt I couldn’t add anything to her wise words, or to the sound advice you received from SAM and others. Anyway, I prayed over this and I hope what I say here will help you see light at the end of the long tunnel.

When things first started to go wrong in what had been a long and loving relationship, I played all the scenarios silently in my head. You know the ones……… ‘I do not deserve this’, ‘This is so unfair’, ‘I’ll show him what it feels like’, ‘How could he possibly do this to me?’ and, even – ‘If he doesn’t love me anymore, why doesn’t he just leave and then I can put an end to this agony.’ Only once we started talking did I learn that the scenarios being played in my husband’s head went something like this: ‘I am not needed in this family anymore’, ‘The children always go to their mother for advice or permission to do x/y/z’, ‘She’s too smart for me and now she’s even the main breadwinner’ and ‘Since she doesn’t make me feel good about myself anymore, I’ll enjoy the respect, affection and admiration of my (female) co-worker’.

My husband would tell you, from his perspective, that not receiving unconditional respect, not being treated as the head of the family, not always being consulted over decisions about the home, vacations, invitations of hospitality (given and received) made him feel inadequate, inferior and unnecessary in our marriage. The damage inflicted on his manhood by lack of respect was at least as great as the damage to my womanhood resulting from lack of love.

We are slowly, slowly, slowly picking up the pieces and rebuilding our bond of friendship first. Intimacy will come back eventually (we pray) though my husband says he has put our marriage ‘on hold’ until he can feel like the head/leader. I have come to accept that the impotence originates in his mind – but this has a very powerful influence on his body.

God’s Word is so helpful here. These are the verses I’d like to share with you. They hit me between the eyes when I stopped trying to ‘fix’ the situation and started really listening to God’s wise counsel!

Ephesians 5:22-24 (NIV)
22Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

The Bible doesn't say, "Wives, respect your husbands when you think they’ve earned respect”. No conditions are attached to this advice. (Likewise, the love that husbands are instructed to show their wives is unconditional, not just when husbands feel their wives are lovable – but only God can convict a husband to behave this way and, if he doesn’t, that’s no reason for a wife to withdraw respect).

Luke 6:32-33 (NIV)
Jesus says, "If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that."

God's grace to us is without condition, and we are to be imitators of God. It’s a tough call, isn’t it? Society says respect should be earned, but God shows us that if we seek to imitate Him, we must love and respect our spouse - giving and serving freely - without expectation of reward.

In the early days, I spent hours praying for my husband to change. Then I realized that there was nothing I could do to make my husband change. I had to focus on changing me! If I didn’t, bitterness and resentment could break an already damaged relationship - and destroy me in the process. I had to pray that God would heal my heart and that He alone could satisfy me.

I know this may not be what you will want to hear. But I honestly believe that is the only road to true peace. It has already taken three years and we are still not in a healed and restored marriage, but we have made a pact that neither of us is going to give up or get out (divorce) and both of us have put our marriage in God’s hands.

I pray that God will bless you in your efforts to re-discover your love and respect for your husband.

FHJ

[veggiemelt]

FHJ - I am so sorry for what you are going through. I can feel the pain in your words and how much it breaks your heart.

What you have said here is beautiful. Thank you so much for enclosing the scripture versus. I am going to print them and keep them in my dresser drawer for times when negative thoughts and emotions make it difficult to stay on track.

Marriage is never an easy road, even the closest and seemingly smoothest marriages are difficult in one way or another. But God did not put us here to travel the yellow brick road to happily ever after. God put us here to learn and to grow and to use the experiences of our lives to show his love and share his wisdom. Our own journey gives us the skills to help guide the generation that follows in our footsteps. The answers we receive through out our lives are not really meant for wisdom in teaching one another - for only God can truly grant us the ability to gain knowledge.

Our experiences give us more then knowledge - they ignite in us the power to understand and feel the pain of our brothers and sisters. Living and walking a path of similar bumps and bruises is what truly gives us the ability to reach out our hands and support our brothers and sisters - not to teach them, but to hold them up and guide them through places where we are familiar with the bumps in the road. We can warn of the upcoming potholes - but our real value is in extending a hand to a friend and sharing the stories of your own scar while you wipe away the tears and place a band-aid over the wound of a fallen friend.

Support and Love - it is all we can ever really give to anyone and all the we really desire for ourselves. Thanks so much Faith for sharing your story - in a world where we are told that all men want is sex - it is so comforting to know that you are not the only woman on the planet suffering from a lack of it.

[km]

the (dis)respect issue (and FHJ describes a number of ways it plays out) is huge to a man. men need respect the way women need love. it is not an accident that scripture tells husbands to love their wives, and tells wives to respect their husbands.

I had a recent spat stemming from my wife calling herself the head of the household to other people - with me present. she couldn't understand that there was anything dispespectful about it, and I was silly/childish to be bothered by it.

[veggiemelt]

km
Your wife called herself "head of the household"? In front of other people? Did she really use those words?

Men and women a like will often make jokes about "who wears the pants" in the family or who is "boss". I have always taken that sort of comment as something more derogatory to women then it is to men - it insinuates that women are difficult to please and therefore guys will give us whatever it takes to keep us from whining about something. I have never really seen calling a woman "the Boss' as being harmful or disrespectful to her husband. I have however taken offense to it many times myself. In my business, men will often ask if I am the boss - they think it is funny because I am in a male dominated field of work. I think it is stupid and it makes me want to smack them upside the head with a hammer or whatever tool is in my hand. I would have never seen these comments as showing disrespect toward my husband.

Women wearing the pants or being referred to as the boss seems to be more of a guys joke, but sometimes women will refer to themselves in the same capacity and it is like we are making fun of ourselves.

I am curious how guys feel about women being refered to as "the boss" either by another male or by another female. And how is that different from a woman referring to herself as the boss or wearing the pants in a joking manner. Actually now that I think about it, the phrase wearing the pants, does seem to infer something different the saying a female is the boss. This is making me wonder how often we allow another person to disrespect our spouse and we do not defend them. I am curious how others feel about these types of comments and how much harm there really is in them.

km, if in her comment she was referring to herself in a joking manner as the boss, I would see little reason for too many hard feelings as it is something that is as I said is a joke and as a female it is an insult to women, even when we say it.

However, if she actually used the words - head of the household - I would have a conversation with her and find out if she in deed feels that she is running your household and why she feels that way. Does your wife really feel like she is the leader in your home?

[SAM]

My husband says in a loving manner, "She's the boss, but we both wear pants."
However, before I commit to anything, I try to say,"Let me check with my husband - we make decisions together."

I would never think to say, "I'm the boss, or I wear the pants, or I lead the family, or I'm the head of the house." That would not be respectful or honoring to my husband.

[rdsmith3]

I would have felt very disrespected if my wife had called herself "head of the house" in front of other people. With guys, I do not call her "the boss".

If it were a one time thing, I would try to overlook it. If there was a pattern of comments like that, I would have to say something to her.

I sometimes read various motorcycle forums or photography forums on the internet. These forums deal with expensive hobbies, and tend to be male dominated. Guys are often talking about getting approval from the boss, or "she who must be obeyed", for an expensive purchase. The concept is a good one -- agreeing on large purchases -- but the choice of words is not always the best.

[km]

She did use the term "head of household". She was not kidding around, it was a statement of fact. She did not understand why there I had a problem with her saying it, and I could not get her to understand why.

She is currently making a higher income than I, so she views herself as the head of teh household.

[SAM]

Ouch! I'm so sorry KM. That is such distorted thinking.
Hmmm... has she ever read Ephesians? It's impossible to miss the implication of who God calls to be the head of the home. Has anyone in your circle of friends (men or women) pointed out this scripture to her?

[veggiemelt]

km, that is very uncool. I have thought for a long time that maybe your wife felt unloved for whatever reason and we have been giving you support and advice in helping you to find a way to lovingly melt down the ice. But after reading this, I see something different. She appears to think the she is superior in some way to you. You have been kind and understanding to her, that is admirable. But maybe what she really needs is to be knocked off of her throne with a reality blow. Maybe you should give this a try - stop kissing her butt and trying to please her and tell her that you are going to take back the position that rightfully belongs to you. I kind of want to smack her myself and words that are not very nice are running through my mind.

I have absolutely respect what so ever for women who find some kind of power trip in making guys feel inferior. It is right up there in the female realm with guys who cheat on their wives. It is literally infuriating and embarrassing to the female gender. I am sorry for you km and I am sorry that whatever sympathy I had for her before is at this moment pretty much out the door.

Sorry if this seems a little harsh, but I have known you km and we have been friends and prayer partners on this forum for a pretty long time - and this just makes me really, really mad. It is no wonder that you can't seem to ever make any progress. You are treating her like a woman and she wants to be treated like a man.

I think I would tell her that maybe she should take her high fauluting salary and go buy herself a penis since she appears to have already grown balls.

[rdsmith3]

hee hee hee

Your post made me chuckle, veggiemelt.

[FaithHopeJoy]

Living and walking a path of similar bumps and bruises is what truly gives us the ability to reach out our hands and support our brothers and sisters

Thank you, veggiemelt. Your words of understanding mean a lot.... and make a difference . It's never easy to admit one's own flaws and failings. Your honesty and insight gives courage to others. Bless you.

[km]

veggie - I do sense you've turned from your initial thinking that I was just a horny, insensitive pig, to a far more nuanced and positive view. And perhaps my comments that I fear moving out may be needed to get her attention as to the state of our problems, and need for outside assistance, might make more sense to you. I don't really want to leave, nor do I want another woman - I really want "us" to work right (but am doubting whether that can be achieved).

She does have a lot of personality features/traits that fit more readily with a common stereotype of male thinking/perspective than female thinking/perspective - but not so as to be predictably so. And not that she'd acknowledge this.

She doesn't "want" to be reated like a man, nor does treating her as the advice books say a woman wishes to be treated work. And things that work once don't work consistently either. My life with her is a marathon of tap dancing on egg shells. And I have been working changing my ways of relating with her.

[FaithHopeJoy]

maybe what she really needs is to be knocked off of her throne with a reality blow.

km - if your wife is deliberately undermining you and disrespecting you, she is overtly disobeying God's plan for marriage. Even if her words and actions are unintentional, she doesn't seem to be aware of the damage her behavior is inflicting on your relationship. One wonders how she could remain quite so 'blind'. Either way, veggiemelt is right - it's probably going to take something extreme to shake her from her pedestal.

I never set out to be disrespectful to my husband - my motives were well-meaning. At the 'top' of our slippery slope was financial hardship. When we had a newborn and a 3 year old, my husband's business partner ran off with the company assets. We faced losing everything, including our home, as a result. I was offered an academic post when our baby was less than 6 months old. My husband and I discussed our options and he suggested that I should accept the post. With the benefit of hindsight, I am not sure that's what God wanted - but that was 20 years ago. it started us on a journey that threw me into the professional spotlight. I'll be honest - I really enjoyed the success. My husband encouraged me all the way - and gave me amazing support. He says he realizes now he put me on a pedestal. We both know that was wrong, and not of God. We are both paying a heavy price as we try to restore our marriage with God at the heart of it.

km - I'm not defending your wife's behavior. I am encouraging you to consider the possibility that she has fallen into her bad habits and doesn't know how to 'rewind'. Her wake-up call may be surprising and unexpected. I know mine was.........

[veggiemelt]

km
I have never viewed you as a horny, insensitive pig. I would have to know someone in person to have them fall to those ranks of classic egotistical male chauvinism. (laugh km, this is funny).