Growthtrac Community

[rdsmith3]

Jeannie,

That e-mail from your friend really resonated with me. I am so sorry for what you are going through. You must feel very lonely at times going through this. Just remember that God is there with you, and His grace is sufficient (2 Cor 12:9).

I think that some of your husband's reputation as the do-good hero just reinforces his lying. The examples you cited are very condemning, and indicate a very deep-seated problem. The hunting license just makes no sense.

The e-mail from your friend really reminded me of two situations in my life when I knew that another person was being deceptive, yet most everyone else believed the other person, even my own family. It was very hurtful, and I am sure you feel hurt in the same way. I don't mean to bore you with the details, but I will fill you in a little. Unfortunately, it did not end well in both cases, but your situation is different.

First, with my first wife, when we first went to court for a divorce, her lawyer was very skilled at presenting her as a victim, despite the fact that she was arrested and convicted for endangering the welfare of a child when she hit our son, and she had a severe alcohol problem. This went on for quite some time. Eventually, she showed up in court drunk -- at 9:00 AM. I assume she had been drinking all night. Her BAC was 0.20. She was on parole at the time and was not allowed to drink. The judge ordered the bailiff to test her right then and there at the courthouse. It took something that dramatic for the judge's opinion to change.

Second, with my oldest, prodigal son, we tried to get help at our old church. We went to the pastor for counseling; we went to the elders for prayer and advice; we did everything that we thought we were supposed to do. But many people at the church believed the stories told by a teenager with a lying problem without ever talking to us. They did not know that he threatened to kill us, harmed a sibling, set fires, and so on. He presented as such a nice, Christian boy. We eventually left that church, which imploded shortly afterwards because of some serious issues with the pastor and his family.

I am at peace with both of these situations, however, because I believe I did what God wanted me to do. Even though my divorce was before I came to trust Jesus as my Lord and Savior, in retrospect, I still think it was the right thing to do to protect the kids.

[j3anjean]

Veggie, that is more true than I want to deal with. His lies have changed everything. I don't trust myself, my instincts. Everything feels tentative.

We have our pastor over to our house or they will just hang out once or twice a week. He sees his best friend everyday. They talk on the phone 2 or 3 times a day. No one really knows him. He only reveals this fun loving, helpful, confident guy. I end up feeling like the bad guy for even knowing his faults. I wish I didn't even know. There are days that I wish it could all still be secret. IMy husband is fun and confident and positive. He is like a magnet to people. I love that side of him. I am coming to the conclusion that we cant have an open, honest, safe relationhsip. I can't parent him. I can't force this or police this. I really thought that he was working closely with these Godly men and they would know but he only shows folks the side of him that he wants them to see.

Rd-your msg made me cry. Everyday I feel like I getting ready for the worst. I've been honest. I try to be helpful and forgiving. I try to encourage him to open up. He always comes out ahead. I won't embarrass him or tell his friends about his duplicity. The only way that I can be part of his life, his day is to be a supporting actress to his academy award winning role. It's lonely as heck and it makes me feel like I am helping him to hide this.
YOU HAD TO PROTECT YOUR KIDS - no one can fault you that.

I so appreciate you guys. Have you ever heard the term crazy-making? That is what this whole situation is. Right is wrong, up is down. Thank you -thank you-thank you for your kind words and support. I'm off to pick up kids ...

[SAM]

So what if you made an appointment to meet with one of these men and their wife(with your husband), and told the whole story and asked for their help? A wife needs to be present. I say this because, guys can be best buddies and never reveal a thing about themselves with regard to personal struggles.

It's lonely as heck and it makes me feel like I am helping him to hide this.

Honey, you are helping him hide this. Until, the duplicity is revealed with the light of Christ, it will continue to be hidden. This is a battle for your husband's soul... and yours.

Ask yourself if keeping this secret is drawing you closer to God, or further away from him?

If you read through 1 Corinthians 5:1-13 - Paul is so adamant about spiritual pride, and how when we see it in others who claim to be brothers and sisters in Christ (and say nothing), we should be mourning in sorrow and shame.

Honey, another person whom you trust - and who will confront your husband - needs to know.

[rdsmith3]

So what if you made an appointment to meet with one of these men and their wife(with your husband), and told the whole story and asked for their help?

I was thinking something like that, too. It is time to stop enabling his lying and deception. The accountability dial has to be turned up quite a bit here.

[rdsmith3]

Jeannie,

You find it difficult to love and trust a man who is deceptive. You believe he may even be headed for another case of adultery. You're not even sure how well you know the man you married. You are perhaps afraid of how this might end.

What have you got to lose, except your anxieties, by essentially forcing an honesty intervention? Can you say to him, "Husband, if you want to continue to be married, it is time to come clean with so-and-so about what is really going on here." You would need to have prepared in your pocket maybe 10 specific examples of his lies because he will try to minimize and sweep under the rug. He needs to know how serious an issue this is. These are not little things you can overlook, like leaving dirty clothes on the floor.

You will pray about this, to make sure you are doing God's will, notyours, than you will be calm and confident whatever course of action you take.

[j3anjean]

Yikes. That is absolutely scary. An honesty intervention? He will not handle that well at all. I am praying about it. I really am. My fear is not what I have to lose-it's what he does. He does not react well to feeling disrespected/embarrassed or to feeling backed into a corner. Should I talk to the counselor about it first?

[SAM]

I would pray about it first. If you feel you want to discuss it with the counselor, then do so.

However, the latest round of lies about his fishing/hunting license are so "out" there, that I would have a very difficult time believing a single thing that comes from my husband's mouth if he were to tell me the same thing.

It is not disrespectful to confront someone about lies. He apparently has no remorse and should be embarrassed for making up such convoluted stories. Perhaps, that is the only way in which things will change.

What do you think needs to happen to stop this pattern of behavior? And, what will happen if it is not exposed? It's likely to continue.

What do you mean by, "He does not react well?" And, why would you fear his reaction?

[rdsmith3]

Jeannie,

This is scary. But the way things are going right now, he has no reason to change his behavior, and he has some serious issues to deal with. The lying won't get any better unless he wants it to, or unless God forces him to.

I don't know either of you, and I am also reacting somewhat from my own past, but it seems to me that he has some issues of pride. I have seen it happen with many people, including me, that God will find some very surprising ways to humble a person who needs it. Until he is humbled, and until he agrees to be truly accountable, he won't stop lying.

I agree with SAM that it is not disrespectful to point out a pattern of repeated dishonest behavior that is destructive to the marriage and to the family. He is being disrespectful to you, and your children, by doing this. Your children may even be learning to lie from him.

Could he be embarrassed? Yes, and he should be. I am embarrassed by sins I have committed in the past. It is part of the humbling process. You are not responsible for his actions/reactions. You are responsible for your actions, which should be consistent with God's will.

Finally, remember that we are all sinners, and that it does not end with him being confronted with his lying behavior. It ends with the forgiveness of Jesus Christ, which is freely given. It ends with God's wonderful grace and mercy, which He generously gives. You are coming along side your husband as a fellow sinner who has received God's forgiveness. You are not descending from a loftier place to condemn him.

I pray that you have a clear view of what God wants you to do in this situation, and the courage to do it.

[resecured]

Dearest Jeannie,
Was just wondering how your counseling session went. Hope all is going well.

-RJ-

[j3anjean]

The counseling session was difficult. I was nervous going in. The only way I can describe it was like lancing an infection. The counselor asked us how we had been and my husband said we had been doing well for a while but seem to be reverting to some old habits -that we had basically come in for a refresher. I almost lost it. I told her that we were back on the same path we had been down before. I talked about the lying and how it is pervasive (not just with me but in all areas of his life) and the damage it was doing. At first my husband got defensive. He said he lies because he feels backed into a corner. Then he said that he reallly listened instead of trying to think of a defense and that I wasn't attacking him but I was telling the truth. That his lies are to hide problems he is having.

We really focused in on the reason why and it is about pride. He hates to let anyone down. He likes being looked up to and respected and liked and fears rejection. I understand that, I do but I have really tried to put across that who he IS is much more important than what people THINK he is. I told him he was selling off his integrity to be liked. I told him that our marriage and his soul must not be worth very much to him if he would trade them off so easily. I was not mean but I was not gentle either. The counselor ended our time with the suggestion that we work out a budget and that my husband work on his relationship with God.

I think we made some steps-I think we have a long way to go but it was a start. We go back in 2 weeks. When we left, I just cried and felt exhuasted. I was beaten down and didn't know how to start over-again. By Saturday, I seemed to switch into being angry and proactive and he seemed to be trying to make amends. I went to the bank early and seperated our accounts. I checked his email, his Facebook and cell phone bills. I told him I have to protect myself for the time being. I am not going to take advantage of him or hurt him but I can't sit and wait for the bottom to drop out. I told him that I loved him but I did not trust him and knew that as long as it was more important to him to impress everyone that I never would trust him.

My husband spent most of the weekend with some friends. Our pastor and an elder from the church. I don't know what they discussed but I could sense that he was working on some stuff. On Sunday, our pastor asked about how I felt about the counseling-I was surprised he knew that we went back. I was surprised my husband told him that we were not a shining example of marital heaven. The service was lovely and at the end I got a surprise. My husband went forward at the alter call and asked the members for prayer-that he had been struggling with the commitment he made with God and that it was hurting him and his family.

WOW! I wasn't expecting that. My husband..... The Andy Griffith of this small town, the guy everyone wants to know, the man everyone wants on their side - the one you call in a crisis . . . admitted that he was unable to do this alone. He was humbled. Mercy. I couldn't stop crying. I did not see that coming. It softened something in me. I know we are a work in progress but maybe there is some hope for us after all.

You have to know that I love this man very much and that my fear of confronting him is not a fear of him but a fear of finding out that we can't go on. That it has all been for nothing. I have this fear that my marriage is going to crash despite all of the hard work we put into it. The work on my end wasn't enough and his end was just trickery and that God is going to let that happen. For months I have harbored this resentment. I felt like God is going to leave me hanging-that my husband is going to con me-hurt me and leave me and that God sees it coming. I know it is wrong but I'm wanting to be honest. Everyone has said, trust God and I haven't. I'm ashamed of that. I have some big changes to make in me, right now.

[rdsmith3]

Jeannie,

Thanks for the update. It is really encouraging news. I pray that your husband is able to put in place an accountability structure for himself, and I pray that he stops trying to please man instead of God.

Galatians 1:10

For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.

[rdsmith3]

Jeannie

I forgot to mention that you did a really good job by not sugar coating what was going on, and not backing down from the truth. I know it can be hard to do that.

[j3anjean]

Rd. That scripture was perfect! I forwarded it on to my husband in a message. I was grateful for a place-like the counselors office-to take off the kid gloves. Like I said, I wasn't mean but I refuse to sugarcoat this when it is wrecking our marriage. I'm not there to impress her or to show her how far we have come. I'm there to get the help we need.

My husband told the counselor that often his first instinct, the first response is a lie. He says he answers too fast. Then he doesn't know how to take it back so he sticks to it. He says it will be helpful that when I ask him something or when he comes to me with something that may possibly be false - to ask him to take a minute and be sure that is what he wants to say to me. Sort of a "no penalty" window. Don't know if that will work but it is worth a try. I was surprised to learn that the truth isn't his first response. That the lie is easier and more automatic. The counselor says it sounds compulsive.

[km]

Men who wish to please too much often react to any any question by thinking first - "what answer do they want to hear?" rather than "what is the right/true/correct answer?". If that goes on long enough, it becomes habit.

[SAM]

Compulsive/habit/addictive - they can all fall into the same category.

Jeannie, I think you may have witnessed a repentant heart. Time will tell. He's taken the very first step by admitting his choice is to lie first. That's a HUGE first step. However, now comes the hard work of stopping and knowing when the compulsion/habit/addiction of lying is kicking in. Some of us are completely non-confrontational and people pleasers. If that is how he likes interacting with people, so that he is a likeable human-being that everyone loves, then he is doing himself and your relationship harm. It's a false fascade.

I am proud of you for not sugar-coating things in your session. The cards to this situation had to be openly displayed on the table. There's no more hiding.

Yeah, God!