Growthtrac Community

[Jessie]

What is it that convinced you that there is a God who loves us?
What makes this more than just a choice to believe?
Curious.

[babycakes]

It's an easy one for me - reading the bible/scripture tells me this.
God gives us the choice to accept his Word as truth and to accept him or deny him. The key word is choice otherwise we would be robots.

[Jessie]

So, you believe that the bible is the truth, therefore God exists?
What would you have if you didn't have the bible?

[babycakes]

His creation that is all around us. The stars in the sky, the sun that rises and sets, the wind, the rainbow, the majesty of the mountains, the crazy funny looking animals and the human body. The miracle of the human body and how it is created from two tiny cells. The eyes themselves are miraculous in how the work and our hearts are another marvel.

God gives us a sense of His presence everyday in His creation. We don't need the bible to believe this. There are many people throughout this world that don't have a bible to read, but they are very aware of His presence.

Ever pick up the book A Case for the Creator by Lee Strobel?

[Jessie]

I see His creation, but don't necessarily feel His presence. I can believe that God created the earth and all that is in it yet wonder why He would care about me. There seem to be some 'expendible characters' in the bible. What makes us different?

[babycakes]

To me His presence is found in those things I described before.
As for "feeling" his presence for me that has more to do with my relationship and dialogue with him. I am less inclined to feel Him with me when I don't speak to him in conversation or through prayer. Most mornings before I start my day, I work on that relationship in several different ways. I pray and I journal and sometimes I just have simple conversation. That is my lifeline in how I feel His presence each day. I have to invite Him into my life. He doesn't barge in and knock down the door. He gently stands at the door and knocks and waits for you to open it.

As for the characters in the bible being "indispensable" - I'm not sure if that is what you meant. That means unessential or disposable to me. Do you mean they are of "questionable" character? I don't think anyone of them are unessential as each one has a story to tell of God taking a broken, sinful and ordinary person and using them for His purpose. As an example: Moses had a speach impediment and often asked God, "Why Me?" And...he would bargain/argue with God a lot. David is another... a murder and adulterer. The 12 disciples were a pretty scruffy bunch too. Peter seemed to be rather hot-headed.

Let's face it, we all mess up and the people in the Bible were no different. Some of them were used in pretty amazing ways!

[Jessie]

Thanks for helping me to understand the personal side of the relationship. I hear that it's personal, yet I wonder if it is just the 'wishing it was true' turned into emotional acceptance that it must be true...if that makes sense? How is God personal? This world seems to be rather impersonal, don't you think?

The disposable characters I am thinking about are in the Old Testament - the people that didn't get on the ark or -I don't know too much of the bible, but it seems God gave nations to someone David? or Israel? These are real people that are paying the consequence of those decisions. Are none of them significant? What makes us think we are significant and not pawns like them? We do mess up, a lot, so will there be another flood?

[babycakes]

Sorry, you kind of have me a bit confused on this one. Let me see if I can dissect it.

1) How is God personal? Your faith Him is personal - it's between you and him. As an example: It is not transferrable from a family member to you.

2) I agree the world is impersonal as we do not take time to be in relationship with others. You are putting God into a human perspective which is making him small - he's much bigger than that.

3) Disposable characters - people who were pretty sinful from what the Bible tells us and worshipping other Gods. When we turn our back on God for all of our lives and thumb our noses at Him and tell Him we don't need Him, there are consequences for that choice. That doesn't make us a pawn, it makes us decision makers with brains. We live life with God/or without God. Deal or No Deal?

4) As for whether there will be another flood - the answer is no. God made a promise to Noah through the symbol of the rainbow that this would never happen again.

[chdoctor]

Thanks for asking. Thanks for your patience in reading through my first, and relatively long post.

The first part of your question is what has convinced me that God exists? There are a variety of sources for my faith, and in the end the fact that they all complement one another makes God's existence most convincing to me.

When I first became aware of God's existence it was because the testimony of Christians, the testimony of God's Word, and the testimony of the Holy Spirit in my heart and mind all agreed with one another. The conviction I felt from the Holy Spirit on the inside to believe what I was reading and hearing on the outside was enough evidence for me at the beginning.

As I continued to grow in life and in my faith, I respectfully tested what I believed to see if it could stand honest and rigorous scrutiny. While a few minor things fell off like dross being burned off in a refining fire, what remained was pure gold.

As my investigation and scrutiny coincided with my higher education, I began to understand more about "problem passages" in the Bible, logical arguments used for the existence of God throughout history, and an appreciation for the beauty and wisdom of God's universal creation.

One more thing...the presence of evil and Satan in the world is equally undeniable. I think the majority of people who don't believe in God don't believe in non-physical phenomena (e.g. Darwinists). Just like God's existence is necessary and irrefutable, so are the self-defeating tendencies of sinful people and the world and demonic forces that turn them against one another. If Darwin were right and human existence is nothing more than survival of the fittest, then why do we slaughter one another in war, abortion, and other forms of homocide? Wouldn't our survival work out better if we weren't so mean toward one another? Even sins that are so self-destructive like addictive behavior continue.

The second part of your question is how do I know that God is a God of love? When the world in its wickedness loves itself, this is not surprising, but when people love unselfishly--expecting nothing in return but God's favor from above--that's special. What causes people to be unselfish? The biblical narratives tell us repeatedly about God's longsuffering love for His children. He disciplines them like a good father does with his children, but in the end He keeps those who are His own. I've been touched by that love inwardly and outwardly. Inwardly there's a warmth in my heart when I get things right with God (e.g. cofessing a problem or sin I've done lately). Outwardly God loves me by providing for my and protecting me, and He sends others as agents of His love. He's also sent me as an agent of His love to others. That's how I know God is a God of love.

The third part of your question is why is the existence of the God of love an objective truth rather than just a choice? Throughout human history, everyone who was capable of conceiving of God has conceived of Him in one way or another. Those ways often disagree with one another, but this doesn't mean that all of them are false. Many in the world we now live honor personal "spirituality" but dishonor organized "religion." Such people also make the self-defeating claim that there is no such thing as absolute truth (not realizing that such a statement is itself to be taken as absolute truth). The truth is the truth, whether I believe in it or not. I can both choose to believe in the truth and also the truth can exist independently of my belief in it. So...when someone suggests that your faith is just your personal belief and therefore not true, tell them that its both your opinion and the truth (as many things in real life are).

[webacus]

ch, welcome.